SD70ACU from Kato

[EspeeGoldenState]

The rebuild of the GE is mostly internal so other than road number is hard to tell them apart.

Not exactly. Most all of the NS rebuilds are from Dash 9s both standard cabs and safety cabs. What is done is replacement of the cab and short hood, new electrical cabinet, DC to AC conversion with GE electrical components, replacement of the trucks, adding of additional weight.

It's most noticeable behind the conductors side of the cab with the inverter box on the AC's compared to the air conditioner unit on the DC Dash 9s.

Personally I'd rather have a ScaleTrains version of these in N scale over a Kato version.

[sundowner]

Not exactly. Most all of the NS rebuilds are from Dash 9s both standard cabs and safety cabs. What is done is replacement of the cab and short hood, new electrical cabinet, DC to AC conversion with GE electrical components, replacement of the trucks, adding of additional weight.

It's most noticeable behind the conductors side of the cab with the inverter box on the AC's compared to the air conditioner unit on the DC Dash 9s.

Personally I'd rather have a ScaleTrains version of these in N scale over a Kato version.

They look just like late AC44CW’s, the cab, DB Cab, Inverted cab are all from GE/Wabtec, UP is doing the same with there -9.
 

[eja]

Does anyone else find it humorous that the designation of this loco (S70ACU)  "ACU" sounds like an interjection used to represent the sound of a sneeze  “Ah choo” . 

I'll let myself out .....

eja

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ed, you really should get away from comparing Kato to models from companies like Scale Trains. Apples and oranges, different price points, and both types have their place in our N scale  hobby. They just made for difference audiences.   Even thought the add-on detail level is not up to your liking, Kato still makes superb N scale models.  And they will not look like they were tooled 28 years ago because the prototype didn't exist at that time.

I disagree.

ST's stuff is state of the art. It shows what's capable in the modem world.

Kato simply hasn't kept up. They're still doing things exactly as they have done for 30 years.

Take a look at the insane prices they charge for "factory" DCC. Those prices are what they are because Kato hasn't "gotten with the program" and installs DCC at the factory. That's a perfect example of my point.

Kato has always done its own thing. They make some very nice models. By those nice models are far from top shelf today.

[basementcalling]

I disagree.

Take a look at the insane prices they charge for "factory" DCC. Those prices are what they are because Kato hasn't "gotten with the program" and installs DCC at the factory. That's a perfect example of my point.

Kato has always done its own thing. They make some very nice models. By those nice models are far from top shelf today.

I'd agree that with shells, ST and maybe even BLI and Intermountain are outdoing Kato given the former have free standing details. But Kato drives still rule the roost.

As far as DCC, I am constantly shocked at the prices of decoder equipped locomotives, even non sound units, when I look at what it costs to buy a decoder and install it myself. Sound decoders are a min. $100 premium on any engine, or significantly more, compared to just a DCC ready engine.

And here I am about to take the DCC plunge, heaven help my soul.

[Jbub]

I'd agree that with shells, ST and maybe even BLI and Intermountain are outdoing Kato given the former have free standing details. But Kato drives still rule the roost.

As far as DCC, I am constantly shocked at the prices of decoder equipped locomotives, even non sound units, when I look at what it costs to buy a decoder and install it myself. Sound decoders are a min. $100 premium on any engine, or significantly more, compared to just a DCC ready engine.

And here I am about to take the DCC plunge, heaven help my soul.

Your soul will be just fine, your wallet on the other hand........

[Angus Shops]

Having recently travelled to Japan and poked around in several Japanese hobby shops, I concluded that the Japanese style of ‘model railroading’ is very different from ours. Given the size of housing common in Japan, I suspect there are very few large, scenery heavy, operations based ‘basement empires’ - Japanese layouts are more likely to be smaller and more ‘train set’ style with loops of track on a table top that use sectional track and all the products we see as “typically Kato”. Japanese railways (the real ones) are very passenger oriented (I only saw a few freight trains and they were all containerized, and I saw no rail served trackside industries). Most Japanese trains are passenger MU sets, so that’s what you see in the hobby shops - every possible type of MU passenger train and a more limited variety of individual locos and other (mostly passenger) rolling stock. Display layouts in the stores featured multiple independent loops with the MU sets whizzing around on the loops - no need for DCC. I don’t think I saw any DCC equipped equipment or decoders and etc. for sale. Kato is a dominant player in Japan and the products for sale in Japan were very much like the products Kato sells over here - beautifully constructed and painted, passenger trains in sets, but no freestanding grabs and other North American ‘standards’. Kato is selling in North America more or less exactly what they sell in Japan.
Of course the above is a generalization, we know there are incredibly talented craftsmen (cringe - craftsperson’s?) at work in Japan as well doing things that might be more recognizable as “Railwire modelling”…
Also, I should admit that I only have a few Kato locos on my layout (only because their FP7 and F7 B are the only locos they make that fits my prototype), but it annoys me that they only do the FP7 in Milwaukee Road (because it fits their ‘Hiawatha set’ business model) and I’ve had to do a fair bit of work to turn them into credible CP units, including freestanding grabs and railings which I consider a ‘must have’, decoders, and all the other stuff that this side of the Pacific considers to be basic requirements.

[peteski]

Angus Shops, that was an excellent description of Japanese model railroading.  As you indicated, there isn't much need for DCC or extensive switching operations which woudl benefit from DCC, so DCC readiness or factory installs are low on their priority list.  They even sell sound systems to be use with DC operation.

This methodology simply reflects in their (very secondary) U.S. prototype market (where the DCC decoders are actually added by Kato USA).  Still, the overall quality of their models is still bar none.  As I mentioned to Ed, there is a different audience for Kato models, and Kato seems to be happy with that arrangement.

But I suppose Ed will come back and state that to remain competitive in the U.S. market, Kato will need to raise to the bar set by Scale Trains, BLI and others.  I really don't think Kato cares. They are happy with their market share. They are basically doing American prototype modelers a favor by even continuing to make U.S. prototype.  They couldn't care less Ed that you want all those (often sloppily glued-on and delicate) free-standing details or on-board DCC. They are marching to the beat of their Japanese drums. 

[MK]

I have been to Japan for the past two consecutive years and will be going back this year.  Last trip was in October, three weeks, 7 towns but I visited 12 train shops.   

I can write a book about my experience and knowledge of Japanese N-scale from those trips.  Let's just say Kato USA is just a smidgeon of Kato Japan's corporate game plan.  When I was there last in October, I literally cleaned out Kato decoders in pretty much all of Tokyo's major train stores.  I had to go to Kato HQ to get the rest.  We had a Tokyo Metro pass so it was easy to just hit most major stores, one right after another.

One big store I went to, I asked the people there how much of a market share is DCC in Japan.  The guy, in broken English, was about to say zero percent but caught himself and said less than 1% and laughed.  That explains why most stores don't carry or have extremely low stock of DCC related items.

And if you look at Tomix, the 800 lb. gorilla compared to Kato, none of their stuff is even DCC friendly.

[peteski]

Mike, were you buying out Kato-brand decoders?  Most of them were manufactured by Digitrax and are rather basic.  Kato also had a batch made by ZIMO, and those are excellent decoders.

[MK]

Yes Peteski.  EM13 for the motor and FL12 for the cab cars to control the lights.  The FL12 were under $10 each and the EM13 were just a bit over $10.  These are prices in Japan.

Yes they are made by Digitrax and basic but good enough for running T-Trak (or any other layout) trains.  They don't have speed tables or any complex lighting features.  They do have min, mid and max as well as BEMF.

These FL12...EM13...FL12 combos are typically on passenger trains so no need to match speeds, etc.  I don't do anymore with OEM Digitrax and US locos than what I do with these so they suit me find.  Call me simple.   

Zimo has a bunch of decoders that match the EM13/FL12 footprint.  Even ESU has a Loksound decoder in a EM13 footprint.  Though I don't know what sound files there are for Japanese passenger trains. 

https://sbs4dcc.com/search.php?search_query=em13&section=product

[peteski]

True, my sputtering brain forgot that ESU made that EM13 decoder (I actually did a writeup on it here). 
If all you need is basic features then yes, Digitrax-made decoders will do.

As for sound, those decoders would be installed in locomotives, not cars. 
But there aren't many Japanese sound projects available. As we keep mentioning, DCC is not really big in Japan. 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Angus Shops, that was an excellent description of Japanese model railroading.  As you indicated, there isn't much need for DCC or extensive switching operations which woudl benefit from DCC, so DCC readiness or factory installs are low on their priority list.  They even sell sound systems to be use with DC operation.

This methodology simply reflects in their (very secondary) U.S. prototype market (where the DCC decoders are actually added by Kato USA).  Still, the overall quality of their models is still bar none.  As I mentioned to Ed, there is a different audience for Kato models, and Kato seems to be happy with that arrangement.

But I suppose Ed will come back and state that to remain competitive in the U.S. market, Kato will need to raise to the bar set by Scale Trains, BLI and others.  I really don't think Kato cares. They are happy with their market share. They are basically doing American prototype modelers a favor by even continuing to make U.S. prototype.  They couldn't care less Ed that you want all those (often sloppily glued-on and delicate) free-standing details or on-board DCC. They are marching to the beat of their Japanese drums. 

Lol, yes, that's pretty much exactly what I'd say!

And I also think you're right that Kato simply doesn't care for all the reasons you're also spot on about.

But that still doesn't change my assertion that they'll still look like the shells were tooled in the 90s 

Don't get me wrong: there were a lot of really great models tooled in the 90s and early 2000s. I have a whole fleet of em.

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[MK]

As for sound, those decoders would be installed in locomotives, not cars. 

Actually that ESU Loksound EM13 (or any EM13 footprint) is installed in the mid-train "motor car" of a passenger train so you will need to find a speaker to install with it.  Sound would be coming form that mid-car unfortunately.  So for my 16-car Shinkansen, the motor car is #10.  It would be odd to hear the sound get louder as car #10 approaches and fades as it leaves, instead of the lead car which isn't correct either.  Then again, for the prototype I think all cars are "motor cars".  Speaker in every car?   

I don't think any Kato discrete locomotive takes an EM13.  I think they all take the common two or three types of light board form factor that we are used to in the US.

[turbowhiz]

If you want to crystal ball Kato’s future in the N scale North American market, just look at their HO line…. Effectively slipped into complete irrelevance, as they just didn’t keep up with the competition.

I predict you will still have models that are appealing to the local Japanese market (i.e. American excursion steam, which I found on department store shelves when I visited Japan in 2019) but models with specific appeal (i.e. American outline diesels, not seen on Japanese department store shelves) will likely not happen anymore in time, as they loose more and more market share to the competition, just as has happened in their HO line. Almost everything HO listed on their site hasn’t been run in at least a decade or more, short of the recent P42 run, their newest HO scale model design, which has competition in the Athearn version that’s probably a better overall model.

Kato is now far behind their competition in N scale at this point, even mechanically I'd argue. Yes, their stuff is top quality, and I have a ton of Kato love from my HO days too. But when you don't keep up to your competition you won't be able to live on reputation alone indefinitely.