The simplest, stupidest beginner's operating scheme...

[Dave V]

Posting here in N scale for the traffic, but I'm talking about my HOn3 RGS. But honestly, the scale doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread.

Since the days of the Juniata Division, I've tried to become an operator. But in the end I get bogged down and confused and end up just running trains in circles, LOL. I think it's because I've tried to go balls-deep from the get-go with car cards and waybills.

@Ed Kapuscinski was here this weekend operating the RGS and we had a lot of fun setting out and picking up cars using his TrainCrew app while the Galloping Goose ran in the opposite direction, forcing the occasional meet. That's exactly the kind of two man ops I had in mind when I designed the layout. I could do that myself absent the Goose.



So I want to try ops again, but I want to start basic. Like REALLY basic. I already realized I have waaaaay too many trains on the layout at any given time, so freeing up sidings and such is a really important step.

The Goose was the only scheduled RGS train in my era, and otherwise every train ran as an extra. And except for the stock trains, every train essentially ran as a local.

So, what's the best way to get started without getting overhwlemed? And please don't give me the usual Railwire sh!t with an operating scheme designed for a transcontinental club layout with 30 trains a trick. I run one train a session, LOL. I have about a dozen online industries and a fair bit of bridge traffic. Nothing actually both originates and terminates on the railroad, so everything eventually either comes from off-layout or ends up off-layout.

I figure switch lists are probably the best way to do this and treat the entire line like a single industrial spur. Once I master that, then I get can fancier with helper ops, Goose ops, and stock trains.

My question is how do I start generating switch lists as simple as possible? Not interested in JMRI unless that's really the simplest choice. Thanks in advance.

[Philip H]

Just do a list of car types in Excel that you want to use; assign car types by siding (locations are good for the rest of us who don't really know Rico from Placerville) and go for it.  So if there's a siding in Placerville that holds three cars total and need tow boxcars and a gondola, you bring it two boxcars and a gondola.  Then next time you bring it two new boxcars and a gondola and swap them out.  Not gonna say its easy to set up, but I'm guessing a quality glass of Brown Mental Lubricant and a note pad can get you most of the way there.

[Dave V]

I know I need to sit down and write a list of all the locations on the layout that receive/ship cars, what cars they need, whether empties in/loads out or vice versa, and the track capacity. I'd done something along these lines early in the layout's planning but things have changed.

I also wonder, would it be easier at first just to make stuff up as I go for a while until I get a "feel" for what makes sense and what works, and then develop an operating scheme? You know, like leave town with a half dozen boxes and a gon, and set them out where they make sense while picking up what's on the sidings already and seeing how that goes? Thanks kinda what Ed and I did, but that's because I had no functioning operating scheme already in use at the time.

[Dave V]

The big ticket items off the top of my head (track capcity not included):

1) Ridgway
- Engine terminal - company coal cars in/empties out,
- Interchange yard with the D&RGW Ouray Branch. All traffic on/off the layout from/to the north end of the RGS starts here
- Stock pens (more decorative...too small for ops)

2) Placerville
- Oil depot - loaded tanks in/empties out
- RGS freight warehouse - anything in/out loads/empties
- Primos Chemical Co ore loader - empty boxes in, loads out

3) Ophir
- Alta Mine tramhouse - empty boxes in/loads out
- House track - anything in/out loads/empties

4) Rico
- Rico-Argentine Pro Patria Mill - primarily empty boxes in/loads out, but occasionally mine equipment in on flats or boxes, occasional coal load in
- Rico public coal bins - coal cars (gons) loads in/empties out
- Rico house track - anything in/out loads/empties
- Rico ore dump - empty boxcars in/loads out
- (Future plans, replacing ore dump) Rico coal pockets - company coal loads in/empties out
- Rico stock pens - empty stock cars in, loads out <--- generally these were stand-alone trains because of the time-sensitivity of moving live animals.
- Relay yard for RGS Second District. Cars coming from or headed to points south on the RGS or D&RGW interchanged here.

So, I mean it's not as simple as a 4 x 8. But also not too complex to understand or unreasonable to accomodate.

[squirrelhunter]

Dave, don't know much about the RGS, but it seems like the real life version was barely hanging on with little regular traffic? How often were they running extra freights in your era?

I ask because it seems from the industries you listed only the mines would generate regular traffic on a daily/weekly basis. The oil dealers would use private owner cars, so no demurrage so probably no need to get cars moving until the dealer felt ready to get them unloaded.

The coal bins and stock pens seem like seasonal traffic. I'd assume the geese carried LCL, so traffic to the freight house and house track would be very intermittent?

All of this is a long way to say that hand writing switch lists is a lot easier when you are only worrying about a few industries needing service every session.

I've seen guys with small layouts use dice to help decide if an industry gets served that session, and if it gets served how many cars are pulled/spotted. Matt Forcum on Facebook for his Metaline Falls Railroad came up with a spreadsheet called Ops Buddy, I can't find it right now but it might be a good lead.

[Dave V]

Dave, don't know much about the RGS, but it seems like the real life version was barely hanging on with little regular traffic? How often were they running extra freights in your era?

I ask because it seems from the industries you listed only the mines would generate regular traffic on a daily/weekly basis. The oil dealers would use private owner cars, so no demurrage so probably no need to get cars moving until the dealer felt ready to get them unloaded.

The coal bins and stock pens seem like seasonal traffic. I'd assume the geese carried LCL, so traffic to the freight house and house track would be very intermittent?

All of this is a long way to say that hand writing switch lists is a lot easier when you are only worrying about a few industries needing service every session.

I've seen guys with small layouts use dice to help decide if an industry gets served that session, and if it gets served how many cars are pulled/spotted. Matt Forcum on Facebook for his Metaline Falls Railroad came up with a spreadsheet called Ops Buddy, I can't find it right now but it might be a good lead.

For someone who claims to know little about the RGS, you really hit the nail on the head! In a good week, maybe a few trains total, maybe 2-4 on the First District. By this era, the two halves of the RGS practically operated as two separate railroads, interchanging at Rico.

I like the idea of handwritten switch lists to start. Just need to get smart on how together started on filling one out. And yeah, there would never be a train movement that would switch all—or even half—of those destinations at a time.

[Bill H]

Dave;
Assuming that you have JMRI on your computer, Operation Pro could be a possibility. It sounds like you already have the precursor info, locations, sidings, work at each siding etc.. If you have your rolling stock in an Excel sheet you are almost ready. Jerry Leone did a series of videos on using a very simple setup of Operations Pro for his new layout when he just wants to operate by himself. No need to set up all the bells and whistles. OP will build a train for you, randomizing what cars, setouts and pickups that will be done and build a nice switch list for you. And the randomization is as much as you want. I have operated on a number of layouts that after a while the four car card options are almost memorized. Just a thought and you can't beat the cost...

Kind regards
Bill

[dem34]

Honestly. Just do some basic car swapping before getting too in the weeds. Then decide if you want it realistic or gamey.
Personally, I OP my 2x4 with a D20 funnily enough.
I prep some rolling stock appropriate for the industries. Roll
Above 11 add a car. Below Skip. Per industry 3 times.
Roll on each car. Above 7 car is unloaded. This adds randomness. If there are 3 cars in a siding perhaps only 1 is getting swapped. (Is this realistic? No, does it add complexity, yes.)
Cars to be swapped are mirrored in the incoming train. If its too short, add tag alongs. These can't move their position in the consist, of course roll high and low on each coupler until you run out on where to stick them.
And once your done do a couple victory laps.
Now you have an OP session on a 2x4 that can last abt 15-20m with railcrew.


The gameyness is heavily influenced by the game Railroader that I am a bit addicted to.

[Dave V]

Dave;
Assuming that you have JMRI on your computer, Operation Pro could be a possibility. It sounds like you already have the precursor info, locations, sidings, work at each siding etc.. If you have your rolling stock in an Excel sheet you are almost ready. Jerry Leone did a series of videos on using a very simple setup of Operations Pro for his new layout when he just wants to operate by himself. No need to set up all the bells and whistles. OP will build a train for you, randomizing what cars, setouts and pickups that will be done and build a nice switch list for you. And the randomization is as much as you want. I have operated on a number of layouts that after a while the four car card options are almost memorized. Just a thought and you can't beat the cost...

Kind regards
Bill

I've looked at this before. And to emphasize how much of a noob I am, I don't really view JMRI Ops Pro as a Step 1, but rather some subsequent step when this becomes second nature. I think something like JMRO Ops Pro or OpsBuddy might be a good future goal. But jumping in head (and belly) first has always ended up with me falling back to my roundy-round roots.

Honestly. Just do some basic car swapping before getting too in the weeds. Then decide if you want it realistic or gamey.
Personally, I OP my 2x4 with a D20 funnily enough.
I prep some rolling stock appropriate for the industries. Roll
Above 11 add a car. Below Skip. Per industry 3 times.
Roll on each car. Above 7 car is unloaded. This adds randomness. If there are 3 cars in a siding perhaps only 1 is getting swapped. (Is this realistic? No, does it add complexity, yes.)
Cars to be swapped are mirrored in the incoming train. If its too short, add tag alongs. These can't move their position in the consist, of course roll high and low on each coupler until you run out on where to stick them.
And once your done do a couple victory laps.
Now you have an OP session on a 2x4 that can last abt 15-20m with railcrew.

The gameyness is heavily influenced by the game Railroader that I am a bit addicted to.

This sounds way more my speed out of the gate.

So, on my lunch break, I went downstairs and drew up a switch list for a consist I already had in the yard at Ridgway (I try to run realistic consists even if I end up doing nothing with them, so that was a good start). Extra 452 West (Ridgway-Rico) with just 6 cars.



The Ophir move will be interesting... There are already cars on the siding, and it's a facing-point move. While the real Ophir had a passing siding railroad west of the depot, my train will have to use the Lizard Head passing siding (pretending to be Ophir) and it's not long enough for the whole train. I'll have to cut off on the trestle (gulp!).


EDIT: Looks like my switch list is missing an origin column!

[Dave V]

OK, actually don't need the origin column. All trains on the First District originate at Ridgway or Rico (never mind Telluride, I didn't model it or account for it in staging), and my pickups can simply be listed in station order in the train's direction of travel.

I also just made some improvements in my switch list sheet to include some 2-letter telegraph station symbols for ease of writing (the real RGS did this but I'm not sure I captured the right letters...who cares?), and a "To" and "From" line for the train's origin and destination (which will always be Rico or Ridgway).

[John]

Dave -- I wouldn't do JMRI (or any switching program) for now .. you probably have access to some historical information ... it would give you a general idea of how many cars show up online and leave each day/week/month .. and where they go . . even if they just go from staging to staging .. when you get ready to make up a train, throw some dice to see how many cars on the train, then pick car numbers out of a hat or some other random method .. you know the stock car goes to the stock yard, the coal car to the tipple, etc .. if there is a car in the siding that you need to drop off, roll another dice --  6 means it stays, anything else, it's empty or loaded, and moves with the train back to staging ..

Later on, you can do the JMIR route - even for a small railroad, it can give you some variations in your operation so that the same car doesn't get recycled each time it gets to staging .. or it could if you want ..

[Philip H]

That switch list is sort of what I had in mind, but I would just go Car type and destination for now.  I know that violates the atmospheric science geek/engineering orderliness of your mind ... but for basic intro and debugging the less detail you throw at it the better.

[Dave V]

That switch list is sort of what I had in mind, but I would just go Car type and destination for now.  I know that violates the atmospheric science geek/engineering orderliness of your mind ... but for basic intro and debugging the less detail you throw at it the better.

If'n I wanna get fancy, a lot of those 3000-series boxcars have placards, like:

"Ore Loading Only Between Ouray and Montrose"

"Flour Sugar and Bean Loading Only"

Such would have to be written on a car card 'cause ain't no way you can read those with 50-year-old eyes on the side of a car.

But yeah, right now, nothing fancy. Simple and stupid.

[Chris333]

I would make a train so long that it couples to itself.

[JMaurer1]

Look up: JOHN ALLEN'S TIMESAVER

5 cars and one engine. You start with two cars and the engine and try to spot them while removing two different cars. Most fun I've ever had playing with trains...and I got to do it on John Allen's original Timesaver (it was always at the PCR meets, but now resides at the San Diego Model RR Museum.

https://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-timesaver.html

Other than that, the simplest was to start operating is to put a few cars on the layout and have a train with a few (BTW: a few = less than 10 and probably closer to 5) that need to be spotted. Pick up the loaded cars (or they might be empty) and leave the other cars. There is no wrong way to do it. Just imagine that all of your sidings are businesses and what they would need to get and/or send out and start setting them up with what they need...