Old (non-decoder ready) Kato F7 and bearing blocks

[Tom4884]

I'm working on putting a decoder in an older Kato F7 and before I start putting it back together was wondering if anyone had tried the trick of removing the bearing blocks closest to the motor to quiet them down.   I have done this successfully with a number of GPs in the past but the interior of the older F7 is not quite the same.  Any help appreciated!

Thanks,  Tom

[u18b]

Yes.   I have done this on old blue label f units.  Works great. 

[Tom4884]

Thanks, I will post a follow up when I'm done.

Tom

[mmagliaro]

Ron, having seen your bearing-block scheme for many years, I suddenly have a question.  Instead of removing
the inner bearing block completely, and then having to get the hex piece on the motor shaft adjusted just right
so the worm doesn't have any lateral play, couldn't you also just bore out the inner bearing a little
so the shaft passed through it completely untouched, yet the bearing block itself would still keep the worm in place,
so you wouldn't have to move that piece on the motor shaft at all?  And "boring it out" would not have to be a very
precise operation.  The hole just has to be opened up enough so it never touches the shaft.

[nkalanaga]

I've never tried removing a bearing block, but that sounds like it should work.  Like you said, if the shaft doesn't touch the bearing, it shouldn't have any effect.  And, if it doesn't work, you can still remove the bearings!

[peteski]

Just  don't make the hole too large. The bearing blocks have a raised collar which acts as a thrust bearing for the end of the worm.  If the hole is made too large that thrust bearing will be removed.

[Steveruger45]

I have enlarged the hole in the bearing block on an old GP35 as I could not move the hex block forward enough and keep it on the worm shaft enough.
  I just drilled out the hole in the bearing being sure to keep as much of the thrust surface as I could and removing any and all burrs.   It worked a charm.  IIRC I used a 2mm drill which gave me 1/2mm diametric clearance of the block to the worm shaft.

[randgust]

Those old hex nut universals are possessed.   I've seen them be dead silent and sound like razors.   I had one old Atlas/Kato GP35 that was so bad I finally removed it from service and I'd tried everything including the Beardon Block and it was still making racket.   I finally decided to put a slow-speed motor in it.....and it became whisper quiet.

I've got two more Atlas classics that are too noisy to use, and another one that is so quiet it's inexplicable and is my primary yard locomotive.   I'm never tearing it apart again, it will find a noisy demon.

I had four of those older Kato F-units and they were far noisier than the newer ones to the point of being annoying, four of them ABBA could nearly drown out conversation.  And they had another unique feature, they'd flange squeal going through a curve and nothing else I owned did that.  The wheel treads were flat enough that they'd actually screech on anything tighter than 15".   They'd pull stumps like nothing else but finally enough was enough and I replaced all four with current Kato mechanisms.   Dead silent, no racket, no screech.   Yes the shells are transferrable if you swap out the window inserts.    I made out just fine by swapping shells around and selling the old ones.   They ran fine, but man, the noise.

So if you accept this level of swap-out and are comfortable reselling stuff.... just sayin'.   I fought it way too long.

[u18b]

Ron, having seen your bearing-block scheme for many years, I suddenly have a question.  Instead of removing
the inner bearing block completely, and then having to get the hex piece on the motor shaft adjusted just right
so the worm doesn't have any lateral play, couldn't you also just bore out the inner bearing a little
so the shaft passed through it completely untouched, yet the bearing block itself would still keep the worm in place,
so you wouldn't have to move that piece on the motor shaft at all?  And "boring it out" would not have to be a very
precise operation.  The hole just has to be opened up enough so it never touches the shaft.

Max,
Pete beat me to it.   There is that little bearing ring on the outside edges of the plastic Kato/Atlas bearing.  Drilling can remove- or at worst damage that ring so that you now are adding friction.  So in the past, others have suggested the same thing, but I'm not sure it is best.

But furthermore,  been a long time... but I think the original blue label F units use Atlas/Kato bearings with the little brass ball in them and the u-joint with the four fingers.
So drilling would not work in that case.

[Tom4884]

Yes, the unit I am working on does have the brass ring in the bearing block so drilling definitely not an option.   I removed the blocks and there was some improvement,  but not nearly as much as on the GPs I have done.   I  wonder if the difference is the motor mount in these old F units, does not seem nearly as tight as the GP motor mount?

Tom

[u18b]

Tom, if I remember correctly, the motor mounts are round circles.  With time, they crack and break. 

You are correct.  They are not as good as the saddle style used later.

[peteski]

the motor mounts are round circles.

Are there circles which aren't round?!
Sorry Ron, couldn' t resist . . . 

Yes, those donut-type (or is it doughnut?) motor mounts aren't as good and tight as the full saddles type Kato uses today.

[nickelplate759]

Are there circles which aren't round?!
Sorry Ron, couldn' t resist . . . 

Yes, those donut-type (or is it doughnut?) motor mounts aren't as good and tight as the full saddles type Kato uses today.

For a circle of infinitely small diameter, the shape is identical to a square or an equilateral triangle with a side of the same length.

[peteski]

For a circle of infinitely small diameter, the shape is identical to a square or an equilateral triangle with a side of the same length.

Ah, someone had to be a wise guy. Thanks Gerorge.    So such a square circle would be used as a motor mount in a infinitely small scale model?  Got it!  Apple Pie for everybody!

[u18b]

The abuse I get here!