ER Shark coupler conversion from Rapido to Unimate?

[Maletrain]

I have 2 pairs of ER Shark locos that I want to run ABBA for a while in DC mode before deciding if I want to do DCC sound conversions.

They have Rapido couplers, which I would like to replace with dummy knuckle couplers.  I have done that with a bunch of cars, where all I needed to do is twist things to get the coupler "pocket" to release the Rapido and then twist in the T-shank of the dummy knuckle coupler. 

But, the pocket holding the ER Shark Rapidos is different, and looks like there is a cover that is supposed to come off.  But, it is hard to see clearly, and I am not sure what actually comes off, or if anything is really supposed to come off.

I would appreciate some guidance from somebody who has done this successfully.

In the future, I would probably put some better looking couplers on the A units, but still keep the dummy knuckles between them and the  B units.

[brokemoto]

If you have an envelope of MT 1133 or 1134, the instruction sheet in them tells you how to get off those boxes.  They are the same as the B-mann coupler boxes.  If you want to go to MTs, 1133 is what you use on the #2 end of the A and in both positions on the B.  The A end of the A takes 1134, which is an 1133 with a longer shank.

Failing that..............................................................

You might want to practice on an old B-mann truck, if you have any.

The coupler box on these comes off from the underside.  At times, you can pinch in the sides with your fingers and get it to come off.  At times, you can do it with tweezers.  At times, it takes an average sized pair of needle nose pliers.  If you use the last, BE VERY CAREFUL lest you damage the coupler box.  At times, once you pinch in the sides, you might have to work the coupler box out of the truck.  BE CAREFUL lest you damage the coupler box; especially the two prongs on either side of the coupler box.  Once the box is loose, carefully pull it away from the truck.  Set down the power chassis.

Carefully remove the Rapido, lest you launch it, the spring or both.  Leave the spring in the box but positioned to receive  the Unimate.  Push the Unimate against the spring then back  into the box.  Be careful lest you launch the Unimate, the spring or both.  Pick up the power chassis.  Position the coupler box under the truck and take care to line up the slots in the tongue on the truck with the prongs on the box.  Press the box into the slots and onto the truck.  At times, you might need tweezers to make sure that it is properly secured.  At times, you might need a pair of pliers.  If you must use needle noses, BE CAREFUL lest you ruin the coupler box.   Pull up on the coupler gently with your fingers to make sure that the box is securely on the tongue on the truck.

If you have some old B-mann trucks or rolling stock, practice on those, first. If you ruin one of those coupler boxes, you are out only a few dollars and can always body mount.  If you ruin the coupler box on one of your sharks, you have a problem. If you do the last and you have some B-mann rolling stock or trucks, you can substitute the box on one of them for the OE coupler box.

As ke used to say,""Good Skill!".

[Maletrain]

Brokemoto, THANKS!!!

I just could not see it well enough to be sure how it goes together, even after taking the shell off and using a 10x loop with a strong light.  I will look for an early vintage Bachmann product to practice with before attempting the ERs.

[brokemoto]

a 10x loop with a strong light.

I always use a magnifying lamp.  If it is not helping you, try an OptiVisor.  I find them difficult to work with but other people swear by them. I tend to swear at them.  Still, it might work for you if the magnifying lamp is not.

The magnifying lamp that I use is one of those inexpensive ones that a guy from Pennsylvania who works the Timonium shows sells.  He sells mostly tools and supplies. He sells a few trains but he sold off most of those years past.  I used to see him at Greedbergs, as well, but I have not been to a Greedberg show, of late, so I do not know if he still works those.

One thing for which to be on guard on those sharks is the white plastic gears.   They tend to crack.  Those things were made in the same factory in China that makes B-mann's merchandise.  The white gears on the B-mann PLUS F-units suffered from the same malady.  I am guessing that E-R caught it late in production. I have four pairs of the B&O Blue and Grey scheme.  Two of the pairs have black gears (those are alright), two have white gears (so far,. no problems).  I have two A units on my non-historic railroad, one with black, one with white.  So far, no problems on that white, either.  I have two Pennsylvania five stripes with white gears.  One is alright, so far.  The other has major cracks in the B-unit.  It barely  moves when you apply current.  The A moves acceptably but you can hear a clicking noise as it moves which suggests that one gear is cracked.

The first issues of these, all had white gears. Among the first issues were the Pennsylvania single stripe, New York Central "Cigar Band" and B&O 1959 scheme.  I did not buy the B&Os but did buy the NYCs and Penns .I erased the cigar ban nose herald then applied the red oval and added the lightning stripes to the NYCs, as the lettering was otherwise in the proper place.  When the B&O Blue and Grey came out in the second run, I bought those. I sold the NTYCs and the Penns (except for the two pairs of Penns that I still have) several years past. Some of them had locked up, some were running but clicking, some were not showing any problems, then.  I was surprised at what they fetched on FeePay, even those that were barely running.

I, of course, did disclose that they were running poorly and listed them for twenty bananas the pair.  I even stated several times in the text of the auction that there were problems.  One of them had both units locked up but still fetched eighty bananas.  You can not blame me.  I started the bidding at twenty the pair, which was reasonable.  If those people are going to bid it up beyond what it is worth, I can not control that.

[Maletrain]

I have 2 pairs, one the B&O with the gray stip and white gears, the other painted without the gray strip and black gears.  The black geared pair run at about the same speed, once warmed up.  The white pair run at slightly different speeds, and both significantly slower than the ones with black gears.  So, I am wondering if the white gears are a little loose and slightly slipping.  No apparent clicking from any of them, even at a slow crawl, but they are all louder than an electric razor at any significant speed.  This speed mismatch thing is why I want to run them for a while on DC before committing money, time and effort to convert to DCC with sound.  I just don't want to run them with Rapido couplers, because I only have a few junker cars with those.  I want to compare load pulling capabilities of the pairs.  And, if the white geared ones show signs of slowing down even more with more run time, I will probably look for another pair with black gears before committing any of them to DCC.

I did take your advice about looking at MT 1133 conversion couplers, and dug out a picture showing what I think is the key to getting the cover off.  I tried to post it here with those tabs circled in red, but got the dreaded "Upload folder is full" message.  So, at least here is the link to the page with the MTL diagram https://www.micro-trains.com/publicfiles/mtl_couplerdiagrams.pdf .

That picture of the 1133 shows that there are two tiny tabs on the side of the cover that hold it on, and now I know where they are located.  I am now looking for a tool that I can use as a tiny pincher to put pressure only on the sides of the box cover right by those tabs, without trying to squeeze the cover top at the same time.

When I get this done, and Tom clears the upload folder, I will post a how-to here for others that may search for his in the future.

[peteski]

I don't do any N scale work on locos without an Optivisor and very strong workbench lighting.  They are a must! 
Those coupler pockets are standard design Bachmann used for N scale in the '80s.  Not my favorite.  Those little pockets just unsnap to get to the coupler head and spring.

I'm also not a fan of the MTL T-shank adapters because the tend to droop, and (partly because they have offset shank) also uncouple easily by slipping over or under the coupler they are coupled to.

It's been a while but I recall just removing the coupler pocket and leaving the "arm" to which the coupler bits attach, and screwing a 1023/1025 coupler to the bottom of it.  That coupler is much more stable than the T-shank ones.

[Maletrain]

I'm not yet to the point of putting on the final couplers.

I did manage to put dummy knuckle couplers on the 2 white geared units and the rear of the B unit with black gears, so I can pull test cars with both, now.

What I learned in changing all of the couplers on one pair was first, I need offset couplers because the straight out version is way too low.  The only offset dummies I have are short shanks, so I used those.  They barely give me clearance, but they sure look better than the Rapidos.  The body-to-body distance was reduced from about 80 scale inches with the Rapidos to about 30 scale inches with the short offset shank dummies.  The sills are a lot closer than that.  But they work around my test loop curves, about 16-5/8" net radius made up of 19" and 15" radius sections of Unitrack.  The front coupler on the A unit needs a longer shank to get out of the pilot, and I used a straight-out long shank dummy for that.  Strangely, it is not so low as the same coupler was on the B units.

I found a pair of rather blunt tipped tweezers that come together at a significant angle, so I can put pressure only on the sides of the Rapido coupler box cover right where the pins need to be compressed toward the center to release.  I found that I could do it best by "rocking" one side out first, then the other side comes out easily with a little finagling.  I only had a couple of zinging part episodes - these springs are larger and easier to handle than the ones used in the MTL couplers.  None went far or got lost.  Putting the covers back with the dummies was the hardest part - especially after I went to the offset short couplers.  That is when I had the parts go zing.  I found it really helped to take the shells off to do this job.  It is easy with these units - just spread the shell at the bottom a bit and the frame drops out by its own weight. With the shells off, I could see better and work closer to get one of the pins lined up with its hole while holding the cover canted up on the other side.  Once I got the first pin in, I rocked the other side down and got its pin aligned and then squeeze it in with downward pressure (on the up-side-down frame).

Now for the car pulling tests.  Well, not RIGHT now, since I will be supporting the club's open house for just about all of the next 2 days.

[wm3798]

The usual Bachmann box conversion kit from MicroTrains should do the trick.
I have two sets of these I want to do, so I'm watching with interest.
Lee

[brokemoto]

Anyone who is going to work with 1133/34, buy the MT coupler tweezers.  They are indispensable to working with these couplers, especially.

I have body mounted front couplers on the A unit.  It works well.

[mu26aeh]

If you're looking for dummy knuckles, get the Unimate/Fox Valley/now ScaleTrains ones if you can find them.  I used them for a Bachmann Reading ABA set and they pulled in the distance between units really nicely.  They make a T-shank version and another for body mounting, with 2 different hole locations

[McKeen]

I have installed Unimates on both my pairs in the usual fashion. The Unimates are low but functional.
Use a long shank on the A pilot.

[Albert in N]

My Bachmann Spectrum F-7 AB set came with Rapidos.  I tried both Bachmann and Fox Valley dummy knuckle couplers.  The Bachmann dummies coupled better and dropped less, so I went with them.  Both are short shank T end same length.  The gap space between units relates to the wheel truck brackets being close to the end of the body shell. FV medium shanks were only used on the Kato F-3 ABA set as needed for spacing uniformity since Kato F unit spacing varies from B front end to back end.  I did not have an unopened pack of FV short shanks handy to put into this picture (the Bachmann photo was taken today and the Kato coupler set photos were taken in 2018).

Here are Fox Valley short shanks on a Kato F-7 AA set.  Gap space is small since wheel truck brackets are inset more away from the end of the body shell.

Here are original Kato magnetic knuckle couplers on a Kato F-3 ABA set.  Gap space is between the Bachmann F-7 set and the Kato F-7 set with Fox Valley couplers.

[OldEastRR]

I don't do any N scale work on locos without an Optivisor and very strong workbench lighting.  They are a must! 
Those coupler pockets are standard design Bachmann used for N scale in the '80s.  Not my favorite.  Those little pockets just unsnap to get to the coupler head and spring.

I'm also not a fan of the MTL T-shank adapters because the tend to droop, and (partly because they have offset shank) also uncouple easily by slipping over or under the coupler they are coupled to.

It's been a while but I recall just removing the coupler pocket and leaving the "arm" to which the coupler bits attach, and screwing a 1023/1025 coupler to the bottom of it.  That coupler is much more stable than the T-shank ones.

Yep, I did the same to the rear end of my B unit. Didn't change the couplers between units, thinking I'd do them as unimates someday. But I wasn't keen on the top speed of 65 smph, so I sold the pair. Tho I've been told that was the actual top speed for the prototype.

[Maletrain]

Comparison of ER Sharknose unit spacing with original Rapido and Unimat short shank (offset) couplers:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[wm3798]

I'm going to monkey around with mine and see if there's enough room in the nose to add blocking for a body mount 1015 in the pilot.
The unimates between the A&B will suffice, so then I'd only have to fight with the Bachmann coupler box at one end of the B...

Lee