Will MRL reroute after bridge collapse?

[nkalanaga]

Laurel-Great Falls should be in good shape.  That's a fairly important line, connecting the Hi-Line with Wyoming and points south and east.

The bridges on the Helena-GF line shouldn't be a problem, as long as they're in good shape.  The GN ran heavy steam over them, and later 100-ton grain hoppers, so the line can handle the axle loads.

The tunnel might be a problem.  Even if it was in good condition, it might not be able to handle double stacks.  They had to notch Cascade Tunnel to clear the corners of the containers.

As for the collapsed bridge, MRL did some renovation work on it the last couple years, and it was inspected last year, with a good report.  It definitely hadn't been neglected.  The Yellowstone has been running high and fast for several weeks, with both snow melt and continuing frequent rains, so it may have simply washed out.

[wcfn100]

Was out at the Laurel yard yesterday and nothing went on the BNSF line north to Great Falls. Didn’t get to see any MRL road traffic, just a bunch of cars getting kicked around the yard.

Jason

[nkalanaga]

Interesting.  I would have thought that would be a fairly busy line.  Maybe they were doing maintenance somewhere?

[lock4244]

Interesting.  I would have thought that would be a fairly busy line.  Maybe they were doing maintenance somewhere?

In my visits to Laurel I think I have seen one or two trains coming off or heading up the GF line. The vast majority of traffic takes the MRL west. Wonder if possible there's not enough qualified crews on that line to make it a viable route for detours without qualifying more?

[lock4244]

The bridges on the Helena-GF line shouldn't be a problem, as long as they're in good shape.  The GN ran heavy steam over them, and later 100-ton grain hoppers, so the line can handle the axle loads.

A good number of them are fully or partially wooden pile trestles with timber frames. I'm no engineer, but they don't look terribly robust to me, certainly not able to take the kind of traffic BNSF hands off to MRL.

The tunnel might be a problem.  Even if it was in good condition, it might not be able to handle double stacks.  They had to notch Cascade Tunnel to clear the corners of the containers.

There's no way stacks could use that line, nor multilevels or pigs. The tunnels are simply too tight. I count six of them in total. To me the only real benefit to using this route would be as an outlet for MRL's own local traffic, but if that's going to move via UP to Silverbow and then BNSF to Garrison, seems there's no point. I'd guess they could move empty grain and coal over the Helena - Great Falls route as well, but probably an issue for long trains given some of the curvature.

Helena - Great Falls, or a portion of it n the canyons, would be a pretty fantastic tourist line.

[lock4244]

A few of the bridges I shot over a few trips along the Helena - GF line:

South of Sieben:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Into the Little Prickly Pear Creek canyon:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

This bridge at Lyons Creek looks solid, but a tight tunnel can be partially seen just around the bend.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Tunnel ceiling needs at least some work. In places the debris was almost up to the railhead.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Some 1995 stamped steel ties installed here and there.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I like this one, perfect for the bridge on a 4x8 figure 8.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

This bridge along the Missouri River near Craig is the largest one I saw... just begs for a picture of a southbound train on it!
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[nkalanaga]

You might be surprised what a wooden trestle can carry.  The NP mainline had one one between Pasco and Yakima until it burned a few years ago.  It handled unit grain trains regularly.

But the tunnels would probably be the killer.  They ran dome cars on that line, when the Empire Builder had to detour over the NP, but modern enclosed autoracks probably wouldn't fit, much less double-stacks.

[Hawghead]

Rumors of detours via UP Montana subdivision (Pocatello/Silver Bow) per a UP employee. Corroboration needed. I’m not familiar with how that would work.
Two weeks to replace that bridge seems pretty optimistic. Was it already slated for replacement?

We are running BN re-routes Portland to Hermiston.  Those train will continue east to La Grande, Pocatello etc.  Only coal trains so far, and I don't know how long it's expected to last.

Scott

[Hawghead]

Oh I forgot to mention all the re-routes we've been running all are going to Cheyenne.  For those of you that know more than I do about the routes through Montana and how to get to them that may be a clue as to how they are routing their trains.  The odd things is so far we've only been running east bound re-routes no west bound.

Scott

[nkalanaga]

Yes, from Billings, the only practical route south goes to Cheyenne.  I looked that up Thursday morning.

Why trains would be running between Hermiston and Portland I have no idea, unless they were going to Portland to start with.  Pocatello up to Butte would make more sense for loads bound for Montana west of the derailment.

From Hermiston they could also be routed to Pasco or Spokane.

[Hawghead]

Yes, from Billings, the only practical route south goes to Cheyenne.  I looked that up Thursday morning.

Why trains would be running between Hermiston and Portland I have no idea, unless they were going to Portland to start with.  Pocatello up to Butte would make more sense for loads bound for Montana west of the derailment.

From Hermiston they could also be routed to Pasco or Spokane.

Yeah I'm not sure why either, maybe just to reduce congestion.  So far the only re-route traffic has been east bound, just empty coal trains Portland to Hermiston (Hinkle), nothing Hinkle to Portland.  I've seen them running loaded coal train westbound on the Fallbridge sub on the other side of the Colombia.

[Hawghead]

Update:

The train lineup from Hinkle to Portland show a re-route to Portland.  Shows being set out at Portland but I'm sure it'll go north to Vancouver or to Seattle.  Can't get a detailed train list so I don't know what cars are one it.

Scott

[nkalanaga]

OK, coal trains make sense.  They all go to the west side of the mountains, so there's no point in crossing the Columbia before Portland.

I doubt that anyone in eastern Washington even uses coal today.  Anybody know of a customer that does?

I don't know how BNSF's traffic balance is.  It may be easier to fit extra westbounds over Marias Pass, so the loads are going through Great falls.  That would be the only reason I could think of for the difference.

[Hyperion]

There's only a single coal plant left in Washington and it's in the east in Centralia, just south of Seattle.   Nearly the entirety of our coal headed West from Wyoming is headed to the ports for export; primarily to India, China, and Japan.

[peteski]

There's only a single coal plant left in Washington and it's in the east in Centralia, just south of Seattle.   Nearly the entirety of our coal headed West from Wyoming is headed to the ports for export; primarily to India, China, and Japan.

LOL, so we are trying to keep the atmosphere un-poluted, but we are happy to sell that "dirty coal" to countries like China and India, which then promptly burn it to generate more pollution.  I love it!    What an ironic double standard, but money does make world go 'round.