SP transition era boxcars

[OldEastRR]

There don't seem to be many SP N boxcars cars with roundel logo and the old-style lettering made. A lot of SP boxcars have the large billboard lettering. I don't know what year SP changed to that style markings, I'm looking for marking styles pre-1955. There are 40' PS-1s and another boxcar type from Broadway Limited. But seems like most SP cars are with the billboard lettering and the usual "DF" logo. The SP wasn't a small RR; you'd think there'd have as wide a range in N of car types and paint schemes from different eras as there are for UP, ATSF, PRR, NYC, CN, etc. (unfortunately the MTL PS-1s have that extra height problem)

It may be Intermountain offered steam-era SP cars, I'd really like to have a 50' double- or single door, with the roundel. I may just go the paint and decal route. Looks like MicroScale offers a set with those markings.

[bbussey]

Pretty sure IMRC has released multiple non-billboard SP schemes on their AAR 40’ and 50’ models. You would have to start hunting to find them at this point.

[SP-Wolf]

There don't seem to be many SP N boxcars cars with roundel logo and the old-style lettering made. A lot of SP boxcars have the large billboard lettering. I don't know what year SP changed to that style markings, I'm looking for marking styles pre-1955. There are 40' PS-1s and another boxcar type from Broadway Limited. But seems like most SP cars are with the billboard lettering and the usual "DF" logo. The SP wasn't a small RR; you'd think there'd have as wide a range in N of car types and paint schemes from different eras as there are for UP, ATSF, PRR, NYC, CN, etc. (unfortunately the MTL PS-1s have that extra height problem)

Well - Bryan is correct. As for factory painted and lettered models: Intermountain offered them (Years ago) in kit form. Not sure about ready to run. As you suspected, the large "bill board"lettering is post 1955.

Regards,
Wolf

It may be Intermountain offered steam-era SP cars, I'd really like to have a 50' double- or single door, with the roundel. I may just go the paint and decal route. Looks like MicroScale offers a set with those markings.

[Mike Madonna]

Pretty sure IMRC has released multiple non-billboard SP schemes on their AAR 40’ and 50’ models. You would have to start hunting to find them at this point.

Bryan is on point. IM offered 1937 AAR 40' single door cars and "12 panel" 40' cars as well in the 1946-1952 paint scheme. B & W herald with Southern Pacific spelled out above the road number. They also did a 50' double door car in the pre-1946 scheme, with just the letters "S" and "P" above the road number. George Hollwedel (Proto N Scale Models) has offered many of these type cars. As Bryan mentioned, you will have to go "on the hunt" for these. From a prototype standpoint, the IM boxcars are the most correct cars for SP....

[johnb]

keep an eye on MTL...

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[thomasjmdavis]

keep an eye on MTL...

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The only 50' PS-1s I could find are listed thus (http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/box/b050-37.htm):

B-50-37 Box Cars

A roster of the B-50-37 class box cars is provided as follows:


   SP 650000-650124   Buckeye couplers; ASF A-3 trucks
   SP 650125-650199   Symington-Gould couplers; Symington-Gould A-3 trucks

      General service numbers:   SP 219000-219199


These 50'-6" box cars were built by PS (lot 8251) in 7/1955 and featured 4889 ft3 capacity, Apex running boards, Ajax hand brakes and an offset 15'-4" door opening.

However, neither the 650xxx or the 219xxx number series includes the number on the car in the photo ( 210036, if my bifocals don't deceive me), so I am wondering what Sp class it represents?  The only cars I could find with 210xxx were renumbered into that series in the late 60s (photo 1971), and in any case, SP shop built with dreadnought ends and a different roof.

Of course, SP renumbered cars often, and so I don't want to say the model in the photo is inaccurate, but given MTLs history of slapping earlier paint schemes on their PS-1's of all sizes, and using their PS-1s as anything from 1937 forward,  I am suspicious.

[thumpernickle]

Although dates for when the cars were operated are not listed, this is a great list of N scale prototype cars. It may help figure out what manufacturers to check when looking for accurate SP cars.

http://coscia-espee.info/sp_models_n.html

[Mark5]

... so I am wondering what Sp class it represents?  The only cars I could find with 210xxx were renumbered into that series in the late 60s (photo 1971), and in any case, SP shop built with dreadnought ends and a different roof.

I think you nailed it: http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/autobox/a050-18.htm

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/sp/sp210365.jpg

https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp209668ajs.jpg

Mark

[JMaurer1]

Short version of the Southern Pacific lettering schemes (from Tony Thopmson's excellent series of SP Freight Car books:

1921-31: 45" Circle medallion with black background on right, S.P. (initials only) with number and 1" lines above and below

1931-1946: 45" Circle medallion with black background on right, SP (initials only no periods) with number and 1" lines above and below

1946-1952: 45" Circle medallion with black background on right, SOUTHERN PACIFIC with number and 1" lines above and below

1952-1955: 45" Circle medallion with black background on right, SOUTHERN PACIFIC with number and NO lines above or below

1955-1957: 45" Circle medallion with black background on right, Gothic Southern Pacific on left above SP (initials only) and number

Alternate 1955-1957:  45" Circle medallion with black background on LEFT above SP (initials only) and number, Gothic Southern Pacific on RIGHT

Then there are the silver and black Overnight paint schemes, but you weren't asking about these...


As for cars that come lettered in the above schemes, MT, Intermountain, Atlas, George Hollwedel, and Concor have all done cars in these schemes. Rarer and hard to find are Ak-Sar-Ben, Aztec, Deluxe Innovations, and Walthers. Not to say these cars are done in a CORRECT paint scheme, just saying the above MFRs have offered boxcars lettered in the pre-1957 paint scheme.

Here's a place that has a listing of the different MFRs of Southern Pacific lettered N scale boxcars:

https://www.trovestar.com/generic/index.php?Collection=4&RoadName=136165&Class=Rolling+Stock+%28Freight%29&Type=Boxcar&Start=501&Limit=100&Start=1&Limit=100

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any additional questions...

[JMaurer1]

Almost forgot: Keep in mind that just because a MFR has released an SP boxcar, it doesn't mean that it is an ACCURATE SP boxcar. Usually, it is a boxcar that is sort of like an SP prototype. SP liked to build and/or rebuild their own rolling stock so an accurate prototype isn't always available, but that doesn't stop a MFR from producing N scale boxcars lettered for the SP.

Example: there is NO correct silver or black Overnight boxcar in N scale. The prototype cars were 'lightweight' and had an additional row of rivets between the existing rows of rivets on most models.

[JoeD]

keep an eye on MTL...

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we can make more  

[Mike Madonna]

Almost forgot: Keep in mind that just because a MFR has released an SP boxcar, it doesn't mean that it is an ACCURATE SP boxcar. Usually, it is a boxcar that is sort of like an SP prototype. SP liked to build and/or rebuild their own rolling stock so an accurate prototype isn't always available, but that doesn't stop a MFR from producing N scale boxcars lettered for the SP.

Example: there is NO correct silver or black Overnight boxcar in N scale. The prototype cars were 'lightweight' and had an additional row of rivets between the existing rows of rivets on most models.

Jeff,
True on both points. That said, the "closest" regarding the B-50-24 class Overnight cars (black) would be the IM '37 AAR boxcar. IM and George Hollwedel released these both with the "S.P." and "Southern Pacific" reporting marks. Even I do not "sweat" the additional row of rivets...

[OldEastRR]

Thanks to JMauer1 for the comprehensive listing of SP "medallion logo" boxcars. As for those saying there's lots of these cars in N scale I would mention that boxcars with tall brakewheels (to the roof) probably weren't frequently seen in 1954, and using SP black and silver Overnight cars as general freight cars shuffling around singly in locals and through general freights looks rather unrealistic to me. Same for  PS-1s with pre-1947 SP markings. No go.
The overlooking of SP pre-'55 even goes to the decal situation. Tho you can find almost every version of UP logos and lettering for almost every kind of UP car, (Microscale), only one very limited SP period decal sets w/ enough material for possibly two boxcars. IDK, when one can see overwhelming support for one kind of customer and very little for another, then I'd say the manufacturers either have no love for model RRing or put profits ahead of everything. I know for some people on this site the latter is justification for this action.
Yes, there are still IM SP boxcars out there. There's also a few fully restored 1951 Studebakers. The trick is trying to find either of them to buy. 

[JoeD]

Thanks to JMauer1 for the comprehensive listing of SP "medallion logo" boxcars. As for those saying there's lots of these cars in N scale I would mention that boxcars with tall brakewheels (to the roof) probably weren't frequently seen in 1954, and using SP black and silver Overnight cars as general freight cars shuffling around singly in locals and through general freights looks rather unrealistic to me. Same for  PS-1s with pre-1947 SP markings. No go.
The overlooking of SP pre-'55 even goes to the decal situation. Tho you can find almost every version of UP logos and lettering for almost every kind of UP car, (Microscale), only one very limited SP period decal sets w/ enough material for possibly two boxcars. IDK, when one can see overwhelming support for one kind of customer and very little for another, then I'd say the manufacturers either have no love for model RRing or put profits ahead of everything. I know for some people on this site the latter is justification for this action.
Yes, there are still IM SP boxcars out there. There's also a few fully restored 1951 Studebakers. The trick is trying to find either of them to buy.

  https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-N13kdzcNFbOia8VNJdBiO6nl-RUXj_ho_PNHBvx8vvkOx16rJ7Zpar9qnr_ZnUPj4QS589m2ULn4HOf3kMCF_g/messages/@.id==AFxoJSA5DvYGZJCPDAaTmJugtf4/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch   cash works.. lol  On the lawn at the Medford car show this weekend. 

[thomasjmdavis]

  https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-N13kdzcNFbOia8VNJdBiO6nl-RUXj_ho_PNHBvx8vvkOx16rJ7Zpar9qnr_ZnUPj4QS589m2ULn4HOf3kMCF_g/messages/@.id==AFxoJSA5DvYGZJCPDAaTmJugtf4/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch   cash works.. lol  On the lawn at the Medford car show this weekend.

This doesn't look much like an SP boxcar or a 51 Studebaker...
{"error":{"code":"EC-4008","requestId":"b78ce3a0-0ed9-11ee-c000-65c757e27165"}}

In any case, Joe, thanks for NOT producing an ATSF gondola or a combine this month.  The roofers are up there right now hammering away, and until the roof is paid off, I won't be able to afford any of the stuff I complain about MTL not making.