Rapido UK N scale...

[bigdawgks]

What is a Brake Van?
I assume all of the cars have brakes - so is this basically a caboose?

And what is a Brake Coach?
Like a regular coach with crew quarters?

British wagons before the 70s came in 2 varieties; fitted and unfitted. Fitted wagons had vacuum brakes and hoses to form a train brake. Unfitted wagons only had handbrakes. A brake van is essentially a caboose; it is usually weighted to provide extra braking force and also came in fitted and unfitted versions where fitted ones could actuate the vacuum brakes on the train. The guard (conductor) traveled in the brake van.

A brake coach has a crew compartment with vacuum brake controls as well as a handbrake wheel. These also double as a guard's compartment. You usually had at least one brake coach in your train, but "full brake" coaches as they were called only had baggage space in them and were usually added for extra storage.

[garethashenden]

One thing about British railways that takes Americans by surprise is how rudimentary things were. 4 wheel freight cars were antiquated in the 1840s in American, but still being produced in the 1970s in Britain. There was a good deal of talk among the railway engineers, and several fact finding trips to American in the 1890s and 1900s with the goal of adopting bogie wagons. But the shippers, particularly the collieries, and invested in equipment and buildings that required short wagons. And so they persisted.
Couplings, where three links of chain are still to be found, are something that continue to frustrate modellers. There are no good solutions.

[Cajonpassfan]

Yes, and the other consideration was the generally better quality of British (and European) track and substructure. With the exception of some (B&O, etc.) uneven early American trackwork pretty much required sprung four wheel "bogies" as did early 4-4-2 "American" locos. Interesting how things evolved on the two continents based on local needs of the era.
Fun stuff,
Otto K.

[peteski]

One thing about British railways that takes Americans by surprise is how rudimentary things were. 4 wheel freight cars were antiquated in the 1840s in American, but still being produced in the 1970s in Britain. There was a good deal of talk among the railway engineers, and several fact finding trips to American in the 1890s and 1900s with the goal of adopting bogie wagons. But the shippers, particularly the collieries, and invested in equipment and buildings that required short wagons. And so they persisted.
Couplings, where three links of chain are still to be found, are something that continue to frustrate modellers. There are no good solutions.

I believe that in Europe there are still some 2-axle wagons rolling on the rails, and they still use those buffers and chain couplers.

[dem34]

What is a Brake Van?
I assume all of the cars have brakes - so is this basically a caboose?

And what is a Brake Coach?
Like a regular coach with crew quarters?

Lot of old British rail equipment lacked distributed brakes. So while also serving the same purposes as a caboose, they were also used to regulate slack, help brake themselves, and act as a failsafe in the event of a coupler failure. Brake coach, same as above but as a coach. Though I believe passenger trains received automatic Vacuum brakes semi standard around the time the US started getting Westinghouse brakes.

[learmoia]

Lot of old British rail equipment lacked distributed brakes. So while also serving the same purposes as a caboose, they were also used to regulate slack, help brake themselves, and act as a failsafe in the event of a coupler failure. Brake coach, same as above but as a coach. Though I believe passenger trains received automatic Vacuum brakes semi standard around the time the US started getting Westinghouse brakes.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how mixed trains of equipped and unequipped cars would work..
... did the unequipped cars have pass through hoses?
... did they block them by type (equipped at the head end, then unequipped then brake van at the rear)?
... did they run equipped and unequipped trains separate?

And, how any of this could possibly be safe (especially since they didn't do roof walks like US did)..

.....but I have to remember that British Trains were typically much shorter and lighter..

All of this to model prototypical Thomas the Tank Engine trains 

[bigdawgks]

Unfitted wagons did not have hoses and were blocked on one end (typically the rear).

[peteski]

All of this to model prototypical Thomas the Tank Engine trains 

Wouldn't that involve watching the episodes of the series rather than learning about prototype British railways?  Or did the show run prototypical train consists (with faces at the ends of the cars)?   

[bigdawgks]

The books and early episodes of the TV series where they were quite faithful to the books were actually very realistic. The author usually based the stories off of real world events.

[peteski]

The books and early episodes of the TV series where they were quite faithful to the books were actually very realistic. The author usually based the stories off of real world events.

Yes, but were the Thomas' train consists actually reflecting the real world train consists?

[garethashenden]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how mixed trains of equipped and unequipped cars would work..
... did the unequipped cars have pass through hoses?
... did they block them by type (equipped at the head end, then unequipped then brake van at the rear)?
... did they run equipped and unequipped trains separate?

And, how any of this could possibly be safe (especially since they didn't do roof walks like US did)..

.....but I have to remember that British Trains were typically much shorter and lighter..

All of this to model prototypical Thomas the Tank Engine trains 

There were some "piped" wagons which would pass the vacuum through without working the brakes. But for the most part the "fitted" wagons, ie those fitted with vacuum brakes would be at the front of the train where the locomotive would supply the vacuum. If a fitted wagon happened to be in the middle of the train surrounded by unfitted wagons then it would act as an unfitted wagon. As for running them separately, yes and no. As time went on, more and more of what was built were fitted wagons. Once we're well into the British Railways era, say late '50s and the '60s, the general merchandise wagons would be fitted where as mineral (mostly coal) wagons wouldn't be. Fitted goods wagons with a 10' or longer wheelbase could run at express train speeds, in part because of the better braking. In my main modeling era, about 1900, trains weren't particularly fast generally. Before WW1 railways were competing against horses and canals. 40 mph is fine.

[ski]

See below... I ordered 25ish N scale cars and express DHL shipping was about $20 US

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=55952.0

So I pulled the trigger on a few things from Hatton’s in the UK on Monday. DHL shipping was about $25 in USD. Stuff arrived today already!!! And I am in Missouri. The only online orders that ever arrive faster than that to me is from Lombard Hobby in Chicago . Incredible.

[learmoia]

There were some "piped" wagons which would pass the vacuum through without working the brakes. But for the most part the "fitted" wagons, ie those fitted with vacuum brakes would be at the front of the train where the locomotive would supply the vacuum. If a fitted wagon happened to be in the middle of the train surrounded by unfitted wagons then it would act as an unfitted wagon. As for running them separately, yes and no. As time went on, more and more of what was built were fitted wagons. Once we're well into the British Railways era, say late '50s and the '60s, the general merchandise wagons would be fitted where as mineral (mostly coal) wagons wouldn't be. Fitted goods wagons with a 10' or longer wheelbase could run at express train speeds, in part because of the better braking. In my main modeling era, about 1900, trains weren't particularly fast generally. Before WW1 railways were competing against horses and canals. 40 mph is fine.

Ooo.. So that's what 'Piped Wagon' means....

So I pulled the trigger on a few things from Hatton’s in the UK on Monday. DHL shipping was about $25 in USD. Stuff arrived today already!!! And I am in Missouri. The only online orders that ever arrive faster than that to me is from Lombard Hobby in Chicago . Incredible.

Cool!!!.. Yeah I guess when I said 18 it was British Pounds, not $.. But they quote their prices including VAT, so when they reduce the VAT, the base cost goes down, and the exchange rate balances things out.

Another thing to note.. Their prices on pre-owned North American stuff are not outrageous either...

[learmoia]

Yes, but were the Thomas' train consists actually reflecting the real world train consists?

The consists probably were not prototypical, but the equipment used in the show definitely was.  In the years of show production using the model trains, everything was built from regular kits with little modification.

So I figure going to prototype British N scale to expand the fleet is 'prototypical' to the show.

[ski]

Don't worry about the shipping costs; it's actually cheaper to buy UK models here in the US, including shipping, than it is to buy them off the shelf in the UK thanks to their very high taxes (that don't apply to sales to the US).

Regarding Hattons, be aware that due to silly politics they do not stock any new Bachmann products, which means you won't be able to find any new Graham Farish stock, which constitutes more than 50% of the available variety of N scale British stock types. Because of this, I usually order from Rails of Sheffield; they do stock Graham Farish and their international shipping is pretty good.
https://railsofsheffield.com/

What's the deal with Hatton's and Bachman/Graham Farish?