Removing glued-in Con-Cor Budd passenger car trucks (how?)

[nickelplate759]

I have a bunch of Con-Cor Budd passenger cars.  They look pretty nice and make good fodder for projects.  I've had great difficulty removing the trucks off of them, however.

The trucks are held on with screws, and there's a threaded metal cylinder inside the car body that the screw goes into (same idea as the old Rivarossi cars).  You need to remove the floor from the car to access that cylinder.   So far, so good. 

Apparently, however, in the early runs of these cars, someone at the factory decided to add some glue into the cylinder to hold the screw in place.    Anyone have a reliable technique for breaking that glue joint without destroying the underframe?

[Lemosteam]

Thought I recall that the roof can be removed; eight tabs that hook into slots in the floor?  This permits direct access to the threaded sleeve.

The thread adhesive may break loos with some heat, but this can be hazardous to the shell.

[nickelplate759]

Getting inside the car is easy enough (and no, the roof doesn't come off - you have to drop the floor after carefully disengaging the brittle tabs that are part of the window glazing).  It's breaking the glue joint that's hard.   Even grabbing the cylinder with real pliers isn't enough...

I'm afraid to apply heat....

[peteski]

How about taking a pipette and doping some acetone in the threads?  That might soften the glue, but you might have to apply acetone multiple times since it evaporates very fast.

[thomasjmdavis]

Hmmm.....
My Con-cor Budds go back to the first run. In fact, I ordered them based on the not very accurate advertising of the time that claimed that the baggage and sleeper were CB&Q prototypes that were almost identical (wording may not be a direct quote, but that was the gist) to ATSF cars, and the coach was claimed to be very similar.  Well....the cars modeled and ATSF car were Budd cars, so there was that....

Anyway, mine were difficult to get started, but once I got the screw to budge, they came apart easily.  The trick is to work around the interior parts without busting anything.  In my case, I was able to pull off the body, and get a small pair if needlenose pliers in to hold the weight, while turning the screw underneath- essentially exactly the same way one did the "younger" (late 70s and later?) Rivarossi's.  This doesn't mean the manufacturer who produced the Budd cars for Con-cor did not glue some runs together, but the originals were not glued, just screwed down tight enough to "jam" initially.



The earliest Rivarossi cars I own originally have a nail or rivet (not sure of the exact nomenclature) that was forced into a drilled out weight- no screws or threads.  I think I redid all the ones I kept, but there might still be a diner in a box somewhere with the original set up.

[nickelplate759]

Finally got it loose, with a stronger application of elbow grease (and bigger pliers).
They definitely were glued - I can see the dried glue residue on the lower end of the cylinder, and in the lower threads.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Lemosteam]

Finally got it loose, with a stronger application of elbow grease (and bigger pliers).
They definitely were glued - I can see the dried glue residue on the lower end of the cylinder, and in the lower threads.

Thanks for the encouragement.

While you have it off, grind some opposite, parallel flats on the cylinder for next time.  This could have been done with a dremel for removal as well (just thought of it).  This way you can get some flat nosed pliers on there for better torque resistance.

[thomasjmdavis]

While you have it off, grind some opposite, parallel flats on the cylinder for next time.  This could have been done with a dremel for removal as well (just thought of it).  This way you can get some flat nosed pliers on there for better torque resistance.

Very good idea.  The caveat in doing this before removal would be on the sleepers (and maybe coaches, as the weights are in the restroom area of the interior- but its been 10 years since I took one of those apart)- the weight is wedged into the walls of the interior- I don't think a Dremel could get in there without a fair amount of interior "remodeling".

Once you do get it apart, this is also a good time to paint the weights, so that they don't show through the windows.

[nickelplate759]

Heck, I'm going to paint the entire interior, not just the weights.  Bright Blue just doesn't look right to me - I'll probably go with tan.

[nickelplate759]

... on the sleepers (and maybe coaches, as the weights are in the restroom area of the interior- but its been 10 years since I took one of those apart)- the weight is wedged into the walls of the interior- ...

You know, that might explain the glue - I wonder if the original assemblers couldn't get a good enough grip on the weights to tighten the screws reliably, so they added a dab of glue.

[peteski]

How about replacing those cylinders with some flat hex nuts?  That way the car interior would look like it should look. Maybe find some room under the floor for some lead sheet, to make up for the lost weight of those cylinders.  Besides, those cylinders weren't enough weight for those long cars in the first place. IMO, it was a silly design.

[craigolio1]

That’s excellent that you got it lose. It never occurred to me that those giant nuts were intended as weights. Quite a face palm moment as I always felt they were rather annoying. But now that I’ve been enlightened I think it’s quite brilliant. Puts weight DIRECTLY over the centre of the trucks. 

Craig

[peteski]

Puts weight DIRECTLY over the centre of the trucks. 

Craig

 . . . and ruins the appearance of the car's interior.   

I suspect that what you mentioned was not even a consideration for the design. I suspect simplicity was.  Plus if you think about it, those weights are rather tall, placing the center of gravity high in the car.  I also don't understand why the weight over the truck center would be more beneficial,  as opposed to being in the middle of the car's floor, and much lower.  That lower weight in the floor (like most models are designed) would still be carried by the trucks.

Also, some of those cars had lighting installed.  Those cylinders were also used to conduct electricity to the lighting unit in the roof.  Again, simplicity and utility seem to be the main goal. Visually, they are quite detracting.

[nickelplate759]

 the Con-Cor Budd passenger cars not only have cylinders over the trucks as weights (just like the old Rivarossi cars do) but also has a sheet of (a little too soft) steel sandwiched between the interior and the underbody.

[peteski]

the Con-Cor Budd passenger cars not only have cylinders over the trucks as weights (just like the old Rivarossi cars do) but also has a sheet of (a little too soft) steel sandwiched between the interior and the underbody.

I didn't realize they included both.  It's been a while since I had one of those apart.  I would replace that steel weight with some lead flashing.  So maybe the cylinders all  along were intended as electrical conductors for interior lighting?