Pico Whitcomb N scale w & wo sound pre-order

[Jim Starbuck]

Looks like it’s right around 16g per axle.
The geared axle end comes in at 32.16g
The non geared comes in at 30.2g
Trying to keep the center of the engine exactly on the edge of the scale but there’s still a minor error as the total weight is 60.62g.
The Bachmann 44 tonner weighs 35.11g so 8.77g/axle and has all four axles driven. The Whitcomb has two.

[peteski]

As for the pulling power it is also worth mentioning that the wheel-back electric pickup wipers on the unpowered truck cause extra drag (since the wheels aren't driven by the motor).  The powered truck has to that truck along with the rest of the train it is pulling.

[brokemoto]

Trying to work with these things has gotten me back to a basic of model railroading:  Your equipment is only as good as the track on which it is operating.

One of the reasons that these things kept stalling was the Peco turnouts.  These are high maintenance turnouts.  They require constant cleaning especially of the points and less frequently but still enough, of the frogs.  The points lose contact frequently either because of dirt or trains' running over them.  Trains generally track fine over the Pecos, even the matchbook turnouts,  until they start to discombobulate, but they are electrically unreliable.  While working on my track, I had two of the matchbook turnouts discombobulate.  As a result, I replaced several of them with Kato, Atlas or B-mann (E-Z TRAK).  I have a few Pecos left on the pike, mostly those recently replaced due to discombobulation,   Most  of them are gone.  I did have some dual code (80/55) that I replaced as well ,as you never can get correct alignment on them.  The mere replacement of the Pecos eliminated many of the problems.

I also learned that what I had thought were problems with the Kato Unitram turnouts actually were more with the curved sections of street trackage.  The radius on the outer turnout of the  Unitram is about the same as the Peco matchbook turnouts.  The Unitram is double track.  The curved sections, even on the outer track, go down as low as a seven inch radius.  This causes all kinds of climbing which makes for less reliable contact. I was surprised that a Kato RSC-2 was running better than anything on them until I considered the possibility that as the RSC-2 has two extra live wheels, that might be why the contact is better.

While I always have managed to do alright making straight or curved sections of street trackage, never have I been happy with the results of my efforts at making street turnouts.  Right, this can be fixed.  Use the Unitram turnouts and straight sections, only.  Use Kato or Atlas nine and three quarters or eleven inch curves, as with a minimum of effort, I can make those curved sections into street trackage.  The nine and three quarter and eleven inch radii are fine for small power and freight cars, most of which are forty feet or shorter.

This long digression on trackage goes back to the statement that I made at the beginning of this post:  Your equipment is only as good as the track on which it  is operating.

The pair of  Whitcombs were doing a fine job as station switcher at Short Creek Junction.  Most of the track there is Kato.  There is some B-mann E-Z TRAK but all of the turnouts are Kato.  Despite the fine job, still there were too many stalls, breakaways (between the locomotives), derailments and shorts(!).  Finally, I found the culprit.  The trip pins on the couplers were hanging too low.  They were snagging and catching on the frogs, rails and points of the turnouts as well as the transition from regular to street trackage.  They were jacking up the locomotives on street trackage causing a loss of contact.  (Do note that at Short Creek Junction, the only Unitram sections are and were straight.  Never were there any curved or turnout sections there.  They are and were elsewhere.).  I pushed up on the trip pins.

These couplers look like a funny knockoff of MTs. There appears to be some copper wire or spring around the piece that holds the trip pin.  If you push up on the trip pins, they do come loose but they do not, for whatever reason, fall out of the couplers.   I do not know if the couplers will discombobulate if you pull the trip pin.  The B-mann knuckle couplers do  discombobulate if you  pull out the trip  pin.

Once I pushed up the trip pins, many of the problems vanished.  The pair were even running on parts of the pike where they could not operate previously.

The one more improvement would be to get rid of the traction tire.  I do hope that Piko eventually will make available a non tired wheelset. Another thing that I noticed about these things is that the truck pivots are off-center.

It might have required more than a little effort to save this pair from being three-hundred fifty dollar Yard Queens, , but the track surgery needed to be done, anyhow so it was worth it on its own.  Doing it plus catching the defect on the trip pins has made this pair serviceable.

[peteski]

Trains generally track fine over the Pecos, even the matchbook turnouts,  until they start to discombobulate,

What are Peco "matchbook turnouts"?  I never heard that term.

This long digression on trackage goes back to the statement that I made at the beginning of this post:  Your equipment is only as good as the track on which it  is operating.

That is the ultimate gospel which should be followed!  While good portion of N scale equipment is quite forgiving of track sins, te entire layout will run much more reliable when the track is well  laid, and solidly supplied with power.

The one more improvement would be to get rid of the traction tire.  I do hope that Piko eventually will make available a non tired wheelset. Another thing that I noticed about these things is that the truck pivots are off-center.

Most (I would say "all") models from European manufacturers (Pick, Fleischmann, Minitirx, etc.  either have an exploded diagram sheet included in the package, or the diagram is available online. That has part numbers of all the parts available for that model.  They might have wheelsets or entire trucks available (so you can extract the wheelsets).  Once you know the part #, contact Piko USA and see if they can supply the parts.  Or maybe contact the main Piko company in Germany asking for parts.

These couplers look like a funny knockoff of MTs. There appears to be some copper wire or spring around the piece that holds the trip pin.  If you push up on the trip pins, they do come loose but they do not, for whatever reason, fall out of the couplers.   I do not know if the couplers will discombobulate if you pull the trip pin.  The B-mann knuckle couplers do  discombobulate if you  pull out the trip  pin.

Interesting!
Any chance that you or someone on this thread can take well-focused close-up photos of the top, bottom, and the sides of the coupler?  I'm not planning on getting one of those models, but I'm curious about those couplers.

[brokemoto]

What are Peco "matchbook turnouts"?  I never heard that term.

The package in which they come looks like a large matchbook, hence my calling them "matchbook" turnouts.  They are a sharp radius (nine or nine and three quarters) curve.  What is funny is that many six axles will go through them.  The Peco turnouts track fine.   Their problem is that they are electrically unreliable.  You can not maintain contact on them.  They are power-routing, so no contact, no power.

That is the ultimate gospel which should be followed!  While good portion of N scale equipment is quite forgiving of track sins, te entire layout will run much more reliable when the track is well  laid, and solidly supplied with power.

This.  Many of the LLs and Atlas' are forgiving.  These Whitcombs are finicky.  It used to be that you kept  one horrid Model Power freight car and a horrid Mehano locomotive for when you were laying track,  If they would run over it, you were alright  Now I can send the MPs and Mehanos with the rest of them: FeePay cheap-0 auction.  A pair of these things will find every track flaw; electrical or track laying.

Most (I would say "all") models from European manufacturers (Pick, Fleischmann, Minitirx, etc.  either have an exploded diagram sheet included in the package, or the diagram is available online. That has part numbers of all the parts available for that model.

The instruction sheet in the box does not have those parts.  there are a few exploded diagrammes but they are not that detailed.  They do tell you how o get the shells and cabs off, which was important for my re-lettering them for my no-historic railroad.

Any chance that you or someone on this thread can take well-focused close-up photos of the top, bottom, and the sides of the coupler?  I'm not planning on getting one of those models, but I'm curious about those couplers.

Here are some photographs that I took with my El Cheap-0 telephone.  I can not get it to focus well.  If you look carefully t the first two, you will see the copper wire/spring that I mentioned.  The couplers look more like MTs than B-manns but the spring is similar to B-mann's, though.

[peteski]

The package in which they come looks like a large matchbook, hence my calling them "matchbook" turnouts.  They are a sharp radius (nine or nine and three quarters) curve.  What is funny is that many six axles will go through them.  The Peco turnouts track fine.   Their problem is that they are electrically unreliable.  You can not maintain contact on them.  They are power-routing, so no contact, no power.

I know those turnouts. Friend has couple of them on his layout.  I just never heard them called "matchboook" before.  Just small radius turnouts.  As for reliability, Peco's point rails (in all their turnouts) never have a solid connection to the closure rails, and depend on the pivot point and contact with stock rail for power.

The instruction sheet in the box does not have those parts.  there are a few exploded diagrammes but they are not that detailed.  They do tell you how o get the shells and cabs off, which was important for my re-lettering them for my no-historic railroad.

I just went to the Piko's website (English version) and found the page for this model:
https://www.piko-shop.de/en/artikel/ger-n-sound-diesellokomotive-br-65-de-19-a-usatc-ii,-inkl.-piko-sound-decoder-38312.html
There, the first link in the Downloads section is to the full manual. It includes all the part numbers and shows that wheelsets are available as replacement parts.  Click on Bedienungsanl./Ersatzteilliste 40803
Or scroll trough the Available Parts list and you will find the wheelsets listed there for 23 Euro.  If you contact Piko USA they might be able to provide those parts in USA. If not, maybe get them from Germany (or order them through company such as DM-Toys).

Here are some photographs that I took with my El Cheap-0 telephone.  I can not get it to focus well.  If you look carefully t the first two, you will see the copper wire/spring that I mentioned.  The couplers look more like MTs than B-manns but the spring is similar to B-mann's, though.

Thanks, but not sure how you uploaded those photos, but they only show up as very tiny thumbnails (can't see anything details in them).

[brokemoto]

Thanks, but not sure how you uploaded those photos, but they only show up as very tiny thumbnails (can't see anything details in them).

Thank you for the link.  I shall look into it.

Try these:

[peteski]

Thanks for these photos. They are much larger ut as you mentioned, blurry.  I see the brass colored "thing".  In the blurry photos that looks sort of like a knuckle springs used in McHenry or Scale Trains couplers (which to me are basically McHenry imitation).

[randgust]

I've got a lot of Peco turnouts, both the Electrofrog C55's and the SEtrack tight turnouts - mostly on my logging and T-trak modules, but 100% electrofrogs anywhere I have to run little critters with short wheelbases.

For the electrofrogs - I hot wire those and insulate beyond the frog, power those with Tortoise switch machines and use those extra contacts to power the frog so you're not relying on the points at all as the electrical contact.   I also solder a thin braided wire jumper between the points and the stock rails on the frog end so that little rail joiner connector isn't the only point of electrical contact.   That makes them incredibly bulletproof.

On the SEtrack tight ones, first, I hotwire a braided jumper between the points and the stock rail so the points don't drop out.  Then I pull the little point spring out and put on a Caboose Hobbies ground thow with the internal spring.  That extra force on those ground throws is almost always enough to ensure point-to-stock rail electrical contact.

I've been adding those jumper wires between the points and the stock rails toward the frog on every turnout I own, prior to installation.  That's one of the most failure-prone areas in a turnout as they age, and it's impossible to clean, unlike the point-to-stock rail connection.  I've got old Atlas C80's that are quite reliable, after you add those jumpers, and that rivet connection at points is the fatal flaw on those.

The insulated frog portion of the SE track turnouts is so short that you rarely have stalling problems unless your wheels aren't picking up.  This isn't like an old Atlas #6 plastic frog turnout where you can loose the entire locomotive in the insulated frog.

[dem34]

And of course, if using the #8s it helps to add a little styrene shim in the frog gap to prevent wheel drop. Had a 2x4 with %100 Peco Long Turnouts and little critters never had a problem there with the shims and the same mods @randgust made.