You think I'd know better - Trix 2-10-0 rebuild

[randgust]

This will do for now, showing the motor.   I've got four of these repowerings in my RSD15's, one in my legacy Trix F7, and three more of these motors that I salvaged from rebuilds I did for friends during the same era.    You'll notice the motor is GLUED to the frame, which resulted from my conclusions that I never needed to do anything to these Kato motors.  Ever.   And they simply never, ever, ever overheat even if they sit there and spin.  Most of these are now at least nearly 40 years old.     And much in keeping with the rest of this 2-10-0 project, the theme is working with what you've got.   I can still get that Kato motor on Ebay that Mark shows, but it's not free.   This is.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/9833_mechanism.jpg

If there's a flaw in the design, it's that they are a touch wider, so I had to grind out the inside of the RSD15 shells and the Roco GP shells to fit them.   I'll have to grind out a little of the plastic Trix boiler to dlear the area around the brushes, but the horizontal and vertical dimensions (bottom of motor to center of motor shaft) seem identical, and the length of the motor is good as well.   Again, I've got three chassis to sacrifice here, so I can literally throw caution to the wind.    And the cab is slid back so much further now I've got to see if there's room for a flywheel on the tender end, doubt it, but still going to check.

[mmagliaro]

Randy, if you're going to put a motor that big in there, any chance you have some of the old Life-Like 5-polers lying around?
I'm sure you know the motor.  They are slow, powerful runners.  In fact, I'd use them a lot more if they were smaller.
But since you think you can get a big motor like that into the Trix chassis, it would be a great solution.

[peteski]

Randy, if you're going to put a motor that big in there, any chance you have some of the old Life-Like 5-polers lying around?
I'm sure you know the motor.  They are slow, powerful runners.  In fact, I'd use them a lot more if they were smaller.
But since you think you can get a big motor like that into the Trix chassis, it would be a great solution.

Funny Max, I mentioned the same thing in my last post (on the previous page). "I wonder how close are its dimensions  to the motors Life-Like used in their later releases of the E-units?  That motor is also a 5-pole skew-wound armature powerhouse!"  I even  thought if mentioning you because you have warm spot for those motors (because they are good).

[mike_lawyer]

How do the Life-Like motors compare to say a Mashima 1220?  I just purchased a Mashima 1220 for a decent price for my Key Imports PRR I1 remotor project.  The Mashima will just barely fit inside the boiler, but I am curious how the Life-Like motor compares.

[Lemosteam]

I've installed the LL 5 poler into many-a-minitrix.

Below, and mentioned upthread, is the L1 that I did starting with a trix decapod, removing one driver in the back and replacing it with a delta truck.  Also swapped the trix drivers for Kato Mike drivers onto the trix axles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MfsxnEnP81aXXTzS8

The LL motor is a hair over 10mm wide at the frame, so it just fits within the width of the trix shell.  I just re-use the back wall holes and drill and tap the motor frame to reinstall the original screws.  You can either remove the forward pilot in the frame or ream it out.

[Lemosteam]

I have thought about flipping a Bachmann K4 motor in the front over the drivers and sleeving it in place to put the worm over the worm gear, but I think that will have a negative impact on the PB pickups and shell mounting post.  Also you lose the space for the weight over the drivers.

[mmagliaro]

Peteski, I did not realize the motor that LL used in their E units was that same brute they used in the old GP's and F units.  Good to know!

As for how a Mashima 1220 compares to the LL motor, that would be hard to say definitively, since I never tested or measured
their relative power.  The Mashimas are all excellent motors, and I think I would prefer the closed can design over the LL.  But I don't know if anyone would notice a performance difference in the actual engine.

[peteski]

I have thought about flipping a Bachmann K4 motor in the front over the drivers and sleeving it in place to put the worm over the worm gear, but I think that will have a negative impact on the PB pickups and shell mounting post.  Also you lose the space for the weight over the drivers.

Is that the small coreless motor Bachmann has been using in the more recent N scale diesel and steam locos?  While it is coreless and quite small, I'm not sure how durable they will in in a long run.  I bough several of them when Bachmann had their parts sale, and I took one apart.  The rotor only has 3 windings (for the lack of a better term - the commutator only has 3 segments), and the metal finger brushes don't look very sturdy. These are not in the same class as Maxon or Faulhaber motors.  I suppose if the motor fails prematurely, it can be replaced.  I realize that even a 3-winding coreless motor doesn't really cog, but it likely doesn't have as much torque as a 5- or 7-winding motor. But then again I can be a bit paranoid and picky.

[peteski]

Peteski, I did not realize the motor that LL used in their E units was that same brute they used in the old GP's and F units.  Good to know!

Yes, they did.  Borrowing image from Mark's http://spookshow.net/loco/lle678.html

[Lemosteam]

All of the LL models of that era had these motors, but the PA, SD7/9 and E* were the only ones with dual long shaft flywheels.

BL2, FA/FB 1/2, F7, F40PH, GP9R, GP18, GP38-2 had dual short shaft without flywheels  with "spring driveshaft".

The motor in any form is quite plentiful.  When I went on my motor collecting spree, I picked up quite a few engines for less than $15.

[randgust]

The basic design and footprint of that motor appear identical to mine except for the skew-wound.   I've got a couple of those Life-Like motors in the PA's I did on another project here, yes, they are honeys.    I was picking up 'damaged/ugly' PA's for around $40.   

I've got a big enough collection of various 5-pole motors it's more of a question which one and what fits.    But after testing, no I'm not satisfied with the Trix motor.  Once it gets rolling it's good, but the slow-speed I expect isn't there.    These locomotives were luggers at low speed.

[u18b]

I'll add my voice.
I love that Life Like motor.
A long time ago I acquired several old, some non-running, Like Like E8s with plastic frame.
The non-running units were because the tubing was slipping on the wormshaft.

I obtained them just for the motors!

Here is one installed in my re-designed Kumata brass Centipede.

[mmagliaro]

What's not to love, right?  Low RPM (about 11,000), high torque, skew wound, starts below 500 RPM, 1.5mm shaft, and CHEAP. 
The only flaw I have ever seen in them is that the magnets tend to break loose from the metal frame,
but they can easily be reglued with Walthers Goo or epoxy.  To bad they aren't just a few mm smaller in each dimension.

[Lemosteam]

B Type so far:

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[randgust]

Well, I just destroyed one Trix motor trying to get the brass worm off the shaft.   Put so much force on it with the gear puller it bent the gear puller, snapped the plate, exploded the motor across the shop, magnets went flying.   Worm still firmly on shaft.  But I think I discovered the old Roco red plastic worms will work.

I've pulled brass worms off of Trix shafts before, never had this happen.   Calvinball.