Weekend Update 8/7/22

[Chris333]

The streetcars in Warren Ohio were converted to busses. In one book they say a streetcar operator found out he lost his job when he pulled up to a stop and the company was there with busses telling everyone to get off and into the bus.

[John]

I remember a pile of streetcars in a field off I70 near columbus years ago .. they are gone now I think

[bbunge]

I remember a pile of streetcars in a field off I70 near columbus years ago .. they are gone now I think

There was/is a gentleman who collected (horded?) a large number of traction cars and keeps them on a lot east of Columbus, just south of I-70.

You used to be able to see them from the highway, but over the years the trees have grown and I think some of the cars have gone somewhere, or just rotted into the ground, to make them harder to see. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B056'35.5%22N+82%C2%B026'15.4%22W/

He had other pieces scattered around the area as well and at one point there was a line of PCC cars stored along a road that passed under the highway that I understand he owned.  Last time I drove through, the PCCs were gone. 

In the 1980's while in college I drove out and took photos on the property (not something I would do today without permission).  It was pretty amazing, there were cars stacked on top of cars; all were in bad shape 30 years ago.  According to some lists on the Internets, there are/were some interesting and rare pieces in the gathering.  I know my father knew who he was, but there wasn't much interaction between this person and the local traction community.  Not sure why.

Bob

[sd45elect2000]

For a while the popular tale was that trolleys died due to a conspiracy between tire companies, bus manufacturers and refineries.

However, this makes much more sense (and satisfies Occam's Razor): https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise

It was imperative to the auto industry to hasten the removal of the trolleys. Already in 1947 there was a lot of support for making the public transport a public entity. Once the trolleys were gone there was no going back and GM Firestone and rest knew that. They set a trap that made certain of their monopoly on public transport.
The article is correct in that falling ridership was the ultimate downfall.  when the trolleys were gone no one really cared no one rode the busses either.

[sd45elect2000]

You bet they do!  I even rode the cab on its first outing in the new millennium (it was parked from the mid-1990s through, I think, 2011).  I say RODE the cab, because we had the GE 25-ton diesel shoving with all its might on the inbound end to push the train up the hill.  It was supposed to be a track work day, but the project was done early, so the guys in charge pulled “The Liner” out just because they could.  I couldn’t believe no one else wanted the operator’s seat, so lucky me “the new college kid” got it.

I never did run the train under its own power though, I passed a couple times to give other volunteers a chance.  Now I’m too happy with my home to want to spend frequent weekends away, but I could certainly go back… and this conversation makes me start to want to.

This photo was much later, after the Liberty Liner was repaired enough to run, and cosmetically touched up a bit.  Good memories for sure!

(Attachment Link)

-Steven

I do have these…
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[JMaurer1]

Don't get me started on the conspiracy to end streetcars by GM, Standard oil, and Firestone from back in the '50's...I still wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat remembering the photos of the Pacific Electric streetcars stacked on top of each other when they were scrapped.

WARNING: DON'T LOOK IF YOU ARE A TRUE STREETCAR FAN! Pictures can cause serious mental and emotional damage!





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

[C855B]

I didn't think streetcar discussions would get any traction on TRW, but here we are.

[Bendtracker1]

[nthusiast]

Don't get me started on the conspiracy to end streetcars by GM, Standard oil, and Firestone from back in the '50's...I still wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat remembering the photos of the Pacific Electric streetcars stacked on top of each other when they were scrapped.

WARNING: DON'T LOOK IF YOU ARE A TRUE STREETCAR FAN! Pictures can cause serious mental and emotional damage!





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

Thanks for posting this. It's a miracle some survived in San Francisco. Cabel Cars too.

[R L Smith]

Thanks for posting this. It's a miracle some survived in San Francisco. Cabel Cars too.

Yes, the efforts of just a few people in San Francisco in the late '80's and early 90's sparked the renovation of almost 3 dozen PCC cars. Not to mention the rest of their heritage fleet. A rolling museum for sure, but also one that generates revenue for the city.  (Not necessarily profit, mind you, but revenue...)

[rail_nut]

Comment about averaging 75 mph is workable. When CN operated passenger and freight, travel time on express train Montreal-Toronto, about 330 miles, was 3 hours and 59 minutes with two intermediate stops. Average speed was maybe 85 mph. In US trains were limited in speed of around 30 mph when travelling through populated city areas.  Is this still the case? Not the case in Canada. Amtrak uses track owned by the freight railroads who really don't seem interested in getting passengers through as quickly as possible. Easier to put a passenger train in a siding and have it wait than an extremely slow long freight. no need to invest in extra long sidings.

A possible positive situation exists with the aging population. With improvements to meeting ADA, train travel by the elderly should increase. My father could travel by air at very minimal cost. With all the hassles he gave up on flying. Show up at the station a few minutes before the train and then rent a car at the other end.

Biggest problem is that there is very limited commitment to any type of rail service. System becomes piecemeal as more and more is being divided up between states.

Just my ideas.

[delamaize]

Yeah, GM and Company sure set us back in the terms of mass transit, that's for sure.
IMHO, the whole "Rails to trails" movement will have a similar effect in the future, as more and more viable Right of ways disappear, for a trail that usually becomes underused.

 

Don't get me started on the conspiracy to end streetcars by GM, Standard oil, and Firestone from back in the '50's...I still wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat remembering the photos of the Pacific Electric streetcars stacked on top of each other when they were scrapped.

WARNING: DON'T LOOK IF YOU ARE A TRUE STREETCAR FAN! Pictures can cause serious mental and emotional damage!





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

[dem34]

I mean, I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy. It was just the standard GM trade in scheme at the time. The Streetcar + infrastructure scrap value was deducted from bus orders by the agencies. Same exact scheme that led to GP30s having Alco Trucks and the Milwaukee Road trading in their Overhead copper for SD40s.

Reality is most of these agencies saw buses as being superior to streetcars at the time and that got reflected in what was ordered. Was happening as early as the 1910s, for example my local Streetcar company was put out business in 1918. By a single guy with 2 homemade buses.

Problems like infrastructure will never get solved properly if people keep peddling a simplified history that makes them feel enlightened but completely sidesteps the problems that need to be overcome with a mode of transport that will always be in fierce competition with everything around it.

[Chris333]

Wasn't it Chevy and Dupont that put lead in gas and killed millions of people?

[nkalanaga]

Dem34:  A growing population moving from densely populated neighborhoods to spread-out subdivisions also didn't help.  The new housing developments were designed specifically for cars, as there was no way to walk to work or stores, and it would have taken a lot for track for the streetcars.