Mislabled paint colors? Tru-Color

[nickelplate759]

I love Tru-Color paint, but for the first time ever I think I got a mislabeled jar.

The color is supposed to be "aluminum", but it doesn't match a previous jar of "aluminum" I had;  instead it's much brighter, pretty much matching "silver".  The old "aluminum" had a fair amount of black pigment in it, the new one seems to have none.

Given the vast number of different colors available, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.    Has anyone else had a similar experience, with this brand or any other?

[Englewood]

Is it possible the paint settled, and there's a layer of pigment on the bottom of the jar? I've had that happen before. Using a piece of styrene to help get it mixed in usually helps.

[thomasjmdavis]

Are both TCP-013 ?  They do also have a color that is specifically "dark aluminum" TCP-355.  Maybe it was the first jar (with black in it) that was mislabeled?

TCP makes at least 4 shades of "aluminum" just in railroad paint.  Not sure if the military or auto paints also have aluminum paints, but would guess they do.

To the more general question- I don't have much experience with Tru-Color, but I've noticed with some other paints that color can vary substantially from batch to batch.  Part of it is that the chemistry changes over time, as companies try to find better and cheaper ways to make their product. And pigment raw materials have variations, especially earth colors.  If the company gets a new supplier for, say, "red oxide" pigment, there is a good chance that all their "boxcar" red and "mineral" brown colors are going to be a bit different from what they used to look like.

[nickelplate759]

Is it possible the paint settled, and there's a layer of pigment on the bottom of the jar? I've had that happen before. Using a piece of styrene to help get it mixed in usually helps.

Good suggestions, but I already checked that with a stir-stick.

[peteski]

George,
Didn't you, a while back, have a thread about a problem with TCP-013 (Aluminum) paint?  I think at that time it was about the opacity or coverage.

Well, at that time I went to Hobby Emporium (remember that place?) and started looking at all the TCP-03 bottles in their paint rack.  I found that some bottles seemed to have fewer metallic particles than others settled on the bottom of the bottles.  I bought one of each of those bottles to experiment.  I also noticed that the clear liquid (solvent and binder) in some bottles was clear while in other bottles it was very dark (like smoke color tinted windows).

So there are definitely different paints in bottles labeled as TCP-013.  Another thing I noticed that the labels had slightly different layout of the graphics.  That to me seems to indicate that each bottle came from a different batch, not a simple mislabeling.

I took some photos back when I first got those paints meaning to post them in your earlier thread, but I never did). Here are those photos.
In all the photos the aluminum paint with fewer metallic particles, and dark tinted solvent/binder liquid is on the left.



Even with the metallic particles fully settled on the bottom of the bottle, you can see just how much fewer particles are in the bottle on the left. Photos were taken right after buying the paints. Those bottles were sitting in a sloped paint rack for a long time.  Despite that, the bottom of the right side bottle is completely covered with metallic particles, while only a part of the bottle's bottom  on the left is covered with metallic particles.



This photo shows the difference in labels.  This to me implies that each bottle was most likely manufactured at a different time. Also notice the bottle on the left looks darker because the solvent/binder liquid in it has a dark tint.



Color swatches. The one on the left is darker, although it is hard to tell in the photo.



Light shining thought the painted swatches.  The one on the left (paint with fewer metallic particles) is more translucent.  I believe that was the problem you described in the earlier thread.



You might consider contacting the manufacturer with your problem and ask them for an explanation of the color differences, and what advice they have to deal with the problem.  It is not very cool when manufacturers change paint formulas for the same color.

[muktown128]

I suspect the sample that looks darker and has poorer opacity contains less aluminum pigment.  Adding more aluminum pigment would improve opacity and lighten the color, since this is color contains some dark pigment (probably black). 

The reason for poorer opacity/darker color could be one of the following: 
1. The formula was changed to reduce the amount of aluminum pigment (to reduce cost)
2. The formula was changed to replace the aluminum pigment with another aluminum pigment (to reduce cost or replace a discontinued aluminum pigment) that does provide the same color and opacity
3. The batch was not thoroughly mixed before it was filled and some aluminum pigment settled to the bottom of the tank, resulting in some containers having more aluminum flake and others having less aluminum flake

[Jbub]

In regards to the label. The symbols used to denote danger have to be in a specific order. The one on the left is NOT "legal" as the diamonds have to form a diamond when put together like the one on the right.

[nickelplate759]

I'm going to contact Tru-Color and see what they say.

@peteski - you are right, I did have issues with opacity with my prior bottle - I addressed that with a grey undercoat and got results I liked.

Unfortunately, I damaged one of the models I painted, after decaling, and was trying to touch it up with the new bottle. the model now has several bright spots.

[muktown128]

In regards to the label. The symbols used to denote danger have to be in a specific order. The one on the left is NOT "legal" as the diamonds have to form a diamond when put together like the one on the right.

I don't believe the diamond symbols have to form a diamond to be legal.  FWIW - I work for a large paint company and have printed out quite a few product warning labels over the years and don't recall seeing the seeing the diamond symbols arranged in a diamond pattern.  Therefore, out of curiosity, I just checked the warning labels on a half dozen different products in the lab.  Only one of the labels had the diamond symbols arranged in a diamond pattern.  One of the products had 4 diamond symbols arranged in a single row.

[peteski]

I suspect the sample that looks darker and has poorer opacity contains less aluminum pigment.  Adding more aluminum pigment would improve opacity and lighten the color, since this is color contains some dark pigment (probably black). 

Those were exactly my findings (as shown in the photos above)   When I took the photos of the upside down bottles you can clearly see that the bottom of one bottle is totally covered by the settled aluminum pigment, while the other bottle (which had less opaque coverage) has very little pigment settled down on the bottom of the bottle. 

The other thing is (as I also mentioned earlier) is that the liquid part of the paint (binder and solvent or vehicle?) is clear (transparent) in one of the bottles, and very strongly tinted black (almost non-translucent) in the other bottle.  Unlike the aluminum pigment, that tint does not settle down, even after several months of the bottle being undisturbed.

I'm going to contact Tru-Color and see what they say.

@peteski - you are right, I did have issues with opacity with my prior bottle - I addressed that with a grey undercoat and got results I liked.

Unfortunately, I damaged one of the models I painted, after decaling, and was trying to touch it up with the new bottle. the model now has several bright spots.

Maybe you should even point them to my post with the photos clearly showing the differences between what is supposed to be the same color paint.

[nickelplate759]

Here you can see the brighter new paint
  [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
( on part of the roofwalk nd the brace from the roofwalk to the further rail) vs. the older paint.

[peteski]

I can clearly see the difference where the touch-ups are much lighter color.  Maybe  I could send you the darker paint for a closer match?   I just bought both bottles (around the time you described your original problem) because I saw that they appeared to be different shades. I don't have any immediate use for either color.

[nickelplate759]

Here you can see the brighter new paint
...
( on part of the roofwalk nd the brace from the roofwalk to the further rail) vs. the older paint.

It turns out I originally painted the car not with "Aluminum" paint, but with "Platinum Mist".   
I realized this when I was getting ready to paint some Amtrak equipment.  Tested and confirmed.

Doh!
 

[peteski]

So you made the error George?  Well, in the case of my 2 bottles of Aluminum, it was (as documented in earlier post) either a bad batch, formula change, or mislabeled bottle.

[jargonlet]

The one issue I have had has been with their caboose red and Santa Fe red. I painted 2 models one night, one with each. I sure couldn’t see a difference in the colors. Maybe those colors are pretty much the same or I just am a bit color blind.