Reconditioning after a Fire

[basementcalling]

Unfortunately my neighbor's townhouse was totally destroyed in a nasty, intense fire at  2AM this past Saturday morning. I have water seepage into the basement that impacted the peninsula benchwork on my layout, and heavy smoke damage on all three floors, but worst in my master bedroom on the 2nd floor.

A reconditioning company is coming tomorrow to start sorting fabric items and hard items into salvageable and non categories and working on them. They claim they can clean model trains - and that cars in jewel boxes will need to be cleaned. I am very hesitant to want them taking rolling stock and especially engines - a couple in brass - to recondition.

My layout peninsula benchwork is probably toast because it absorbed smoke and some water.  Shelves in along the wall sections were mostly still bare, so losing finished scenery is a minimal concern, but the paper mill scene some of you remember from my layout threat was smoked and had a massive catzilla attack. One of my kitties was in freaked out mode when I found her after the fire was out and the FD had let me back in to look for my cats. She ran a couple laps through the paper mill before I could get her off the layout - she was avoiding the water on the floor and scared from all the  smoke and firemen in the house no doubt.

Anyone here with any experience with having to have items reconditioned? I know there are people who do the work, but wondering how much smell a plastic piece of rolling stock can absorb.  I also have a couple oNeTrak modules that were in the basement, and cars out of boxes that were on the layout or in those large white foam lined boxes we use to carry our trains to shows to run on NTRAK layouts.

Any thoughts, cautions, stories, or suggestions on what to do?

[jagged ben]

I wouldn't let them touch any trains.  Well, maybe I would if there was some agreement to do it under my supervision until I knew there was the requisite expertise.  I would be interested in their advice but not willing to give them a free hand.

I'm not speaking from any experience.  Just knowing that if anyone took anything and did anything to it without my having a chance to inspect the trains prior and observe what they wanted to do, I would have very deep regrets if they came back to me with damage.  Then I wouldn't know if the damage was from the fire or from the 'reconditioning', and recriminations would be likely.

Also, that sucks.  Best of luck.

[sirenwerks]

I would ask for their process for the models, specifically, in writing and the gaurantee they offer, and for references on that sort of project..  Not too mention that they provide a full, individualized inventory of what they take.

[nkalanaga]

I doubt that any rolling stock in jewel boxes was seriously damaged, unless it had chalk or other water-soluble weathering.  Even for plastic stuff not in a box I doubt that it would absorb that much smoke odor in a short time.  A good washing with water and some dish soap should fix it. 

The biggest danger for locos is probably the motor brushes, and a good dose of contact cleaner will probably fix that.  As long as they weren't powered up the electronics should be fine, although wheel contacts should be cleaned.  Basically, for the locos, I'd ask the electronics folks here the best way to clean the motor, to remove any "gunk" that might have been deposited.  Then, clean the rest with clean water, possibly alcohol for the gears and contacts, and relube everything.  Pretty much what would be done if you bought a well-used loco at a show.

[basementcalling]

I doubt that any rolling stock in jewel boxes was seriously damaged, unless it had chalk or other water-soluble weathering.  Even for plastic stuff not in a box I doubt that it would absorb that much smoke odor in a short time.  A good washing with water and some dish soap should fix it. 

The biggest danger for locos is probably the motor brushes, and a good dose of contact cleaner will probably fix that.  As long as they weren't powered up the electronics should be fine, although wheel contacts should be cleaned.  Basically, for the locos, I'd ask the electronics folks here the best way to clean the motor, to remove any "gunk" that might have been deposited.  Then, clean the rest with clean water, possibly alcohol for the gears and contacts, and relube everything.  Pretty much what would be done if you bought a well-used loco at a show.

Kind of what I was thinking, but with well over 100 locos in their boxes reconditioning all of them might be more than I can do in my spare time. Work has been great about time off this week to deal with insurance crapola, and damn is there a LOT of that. 34 phone calls in one day yesterday was absolutely crazy.

Luckily at 2AM nothing was powered up on the layout. All appliances that were powered get to be reconditioned because the motors and magnetic field they generate attract the ions in the smoke. I know they are not touching my brass Gas Turbine and FEFs.

I'm also thinking that Kato engines are likely better sealed in their style of jewel case than Atlas ones because of how their tops click onto the box vs slide down the sides like the Katos.  Thank goodness I have NO sound units to worry about.

I am wondering about scenery supplies like ground foam and such though. Wonder if I can raise eyebrows if I ask if they can recondition my container of Sherman Hill soil I collected on site 7 years ago. Ballast is another item. Hate to put that down on tracks in the future only to learn from clogged motor coils or problems with dirty wheels that it contains smoke particles that spread after application.

Another question what about exposed plywood and cork on unfinished sections of the layout? Tortoise stall switch motors? Weathering supplies like pan pastels and the obligatory chalk sticks?

[peteski]

That is a terrible thing to happen to anyone -- you have my sympathy Peter.

Do you know roughly for how long were the items exposed to smoke, and how heavy was it?  If it was for not too long, and the smoke was not very heavy, then there might not be much smoke damage to the models in the boxes.  Like the smoke from when you burn your dinner in the house, that usually has no lasting effect.

But if you can clearly smell smoke on the models, then there will likely be some extra cleaning needed.  I agree that if locos were in boxes (especially tight boxes like Kato) then the smoke (and even water) damage will likely be minimal.  The other thing to consider is that the reconditioning company likely wants to maximize their profit by cleaning as many things as they can.  They could be a bit overzealous in recommending cleaning everything.

Just to put my recommendations in perspective, I have no experience dealing with house fire damage.  The closest I came to dealing with smoke was a used car I bought from a smoker years ago where I had to eliminate that stench (using some commercially available "smoke eater" aerosol cans from Home Depot).

[John]

Anyone here with any experience with having to have items reconditioned? I know there are people who do the work, but wondering how much smell a plastic piece of rolling stock can absorb.  I also have a couple oNeTrak modules that were in the basement, and cars out of boxes that were on the layout or in those large white foam lined boxes we use to carry our trains to shows to run on NTRAK layouts.

Any thoughts, cautions, stories, or suggestions on what to do?

I would open up a sampling of the boxes to see what the damage is.  If it's just some smoke smell - you can probably clean it yourself with a little bit care.  That way you know it's done by a modeler.    As far as the layout -- I would have their insurance pay for a new one

[mu26aeh]

I'll agree with peteski,  they're going to push to "recondition" every possible item to maximize return for themselves.  Check a few cars/locos and see if odors are present.  do you still think smoke particles would be an issue in ballast if youre gluing it ?  id think thw glue would lock anything in place.

I'm reminded of a time at my grandparents where they had a small leak in a toilet supply line go unnoticed for a few days on the first floor of their home.  Below this was a section of basement that had a large personal collection of vintage Lionel, marx, and other kinds pf trains.  We were called immediately to start moving items off the floor and shelves to prevent further damage.  We were told to "let the professionals "handle it once they got there.  We just laughed and continued moving stuff.  At their pace, many more items were at risk, and some were very high value items. Due to rarity or condition

[NtheBasement]

I agree with the above.   Unless there are fire fighting chemicals the only thing is the smoke smell.  It gets absorbed by fabrics so things like foliage on your layout might retain the smell.  They may bring an ozone generator, aka lung cancerizer, in the room which sticks the smoke particles to surfaces.  Consider covering the layout with, say, newspaper if they are going to do that.

[Jon898]

We had a catastrophic fire back in 2007 that destroyed about half a (large) house and heavily smoked the rest.  The fire broke out at 2:16am, and we did not move back into the house until almost a year later.

The (small) train layout itself was destroyed as it was next to the source of the fire.  The supplies and rolling stock pretty much survived; they were in storage boxes and steamer trunks, and while those were lost, the contents were not affected.  The Kato and Atlas locos are still operating to this day, while the one Graham Farish steamer does not operate, but that may not be related to the fire damage.  The smoke mitigation by the restoration company seems to have worked well, and the only visible difference is the incredibly effective weathering the smoke applied to a Walthers Medusa Cement structure (note - not a recommended technique!).  A couple of the built-up structures suffered some limited handling damage, but nothing I couldn't fix.

A few general comments:

1.  A brass chandelier went from shiny brass to "antique" brass.  We learned later that anything brass needed to be sprayed with oil (WD40 was suggested) within a few hours of exposure as the fire products attack brass with vigor...probably too late at this stage, but may be worth a try.  Nobody told us this at the time, but by happenstance I removed a small brass carriage clock within hours (concerned about theft) and that got through OK.

2.  A sink that was finished as antique brass was taken by the restoration company for treatment - unfortunately their workers didn't know it was "antique finish" and spent many hours "restoring" it so it was returned to us shiny as a new penny.  They were so proud of how it came out I didn't have the heart to tell them what they'd done wrong.

3.  Ask to inspect anything classified as non-salvageable before it's discarded.  We almost lost a lot of numbered art prints that were classified that way, where only the glass was smoked and the prints were fine once you disassembled the frames.  You know your stuff better that anyone else.  That also goes for reviewing the inventories...you'll probably see some strange descriptions and groupings on those.

4.  Typically, the de-smoking uses an ozone generator.  That can apparently damage some plastics although I didn't experience that.  It can do a number on electrical gear if in standby, and we lost over half the A/V gear.

5.  We found that the concrete in the basement seemed to suck up the smoke and while the smell was eventually nullified to a large extent (not completely) by extensive ozoning, the soot remained and was tracked all over the rebuilt house.  We ended up getting the insurance company to pay for the basement floor to be epoxy coated, which finally solved that issue.

6.  If they put an ozone generator in the basement, they are supposed to shut off after a few hours on a timer.  Twice they did not and kept running for over 12 hours, resulting in a toxic atmosphere in the basement.  Something to be aware of if you enter the home before anyone else.

You have my sympathy with this experience.  Understand it's traumatic and will stay with you for a long time.  Dealing with the insurance company is a challenge - we were lucky in the Adjuster we were assigned, but it was still a second full time job for almost a year.  To this day, we can't stand the smell of a wood fire, which we both used to like!

Good luck with the process,

Jon

[Englewood]

So sorry this happened to you and your neighbor. I hope everything works out.
I have a large locomotive collection that I keep in some plastic storage tubs. I've thought of replacing the storage containers lately with some newer ones. There are some that are waterproof, but they're 3x the price of regular ones. After reading your story, I'll spring for the waterproof ones, in case there's ever a fire or a hurricane damages the house.

[randgust]

I think I'd take a couple samples myself and really check them out - look for oxidation, staining, test run them, anything.

If you can prove to yourself you actually do have a problem, get their process, see what protection they offer, etc.   I'd be suspect that their experience with trains would be Lionel at best.    If you discover you do have a problem that equipment was damaged, see if you've got some 'replaceable' stuff to give them for process testing first (i.e. prove it) before you would dump an entire collection on them.

My instinct is they are running up the bill and 'restoring' them is treating them with magic smoke and pixie dust so you can't smell anything.   I'd really be suspect of additional damage from the process, let alone handling.   For mechanisms, you'd have to get the shell off, and right there unless you know what you're doing, more harm than good in the wrong hands.

Reminds me of when the TV cable company said all the Coax in my house needed upgraded due to signal failure, and three trunk lines and a splitter are located in the ceiling over my layout.    They insisted they could do it, until the installer actually saw my layout.    'Oh, HELL no. - I'll give you all the cable and a lesson in making connections and you're on your own here' !!!!   I'm just glad he was honest enough to do it that way, as I had no trouble at all myself.

[Nato]

     So Sorry to hear this. Nate Goodman (Nato). 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Damn man, that sucks!!

I don't have any practical advice other than to pass along my best wishes as you deal with a huge pain in the a$$.

[Rivet Miscounter]

Damn man, that sucks!!

I don't have any practical advice other than to pass along my best wishes as you deal with a huge pain in the a$$.

Same.

No direct experience, but my parents went through similar with mold abatement.   The insurance company wanted (demanded) stuff be thrown away so that was a fight with some of their keepsakes.

I would not let them touch anything without significant discussion.   Life these days is full of "I got this" when they most assuredly don't got this.   Maybe contact the NMRA and see if they have any contacts with expertise in this area.    For items that aren't easily replaceable make them treat those items as collectibles.  Otherwise, as was mentioned, you'll likely get the "Lionel Treatment" with powerwashers and dish soap.