Steam engines from Broadway Limited for 2022

[peteski]

I once bought an Arnold BR 18 steamer to go with their Rheingold passenger car set.
The smoke unit never worked well unless the loco was running at high speed/high track voltage, and it did leave an oily residue across the top of the loco.
The LHS from which I purchased the loco had ordered it from Walthers who, at least at that time, had a 'satisfaction guaranteed or your money back' policy, so the loco was returned for a refund.

With DCC, having enough voltage to smoke a storm is not a problem, but the oily residue is.  While still messy, in larger scales (like 0), where they can install a fan that simulates chuffing, smoke looks very realistic, but in N scale the meandering wispy smoke looks silly. Seems more of a gimmick that maybe some kids would enjoy (for a while).  But how many of today kids even know what steam engines look like?  I guess BLI is just living up to their penchant for gimmicks like the cattle car, or the water tower.

[Point353]

With DCC, having enough voltage to smoke a storm is not a problem, but the oily residue is.

Assuming the decoder has dual-mode capability, how well do you suppose the smoke unit would function when run on variable voltage DC?
My layout must be the last one on Earth that lacks a DCC system.

[peteski]

Assuming the decoder has dual-mode capability, how well do you suppose the smoke unit would function when run on variable voltage DC?
My layout must be the last one on Earth that lacks a DCC system.

From what I recall from my youth, the throttle needed to be cranked up around 60% to get any appreciable smoke. But that was around 40 years ago, so my memory might not be accurate.  You yourself posted earlier that you had an unsatisfactory experience with Arnold BR18 with a smoke unit on DC.  I also don't know what type of a smoke generator BLI uses.  It is basically a small heater that vaporizes the smoke fluid (oil), so it  needs high enough voltage to get it hot.
I would say that if you're planning on buying that loco, just turn off the smoke generator and enjoy the other features. As for lack of DCC, you are far from being the last one. There are still other modelers running on DC (even on TRW). 

[Teditor]

Although I am referring to an Ho loco, the subject is still BLI Smoke Units.

I purchased a BLI C&O T-1 2-10-4 second hand, the smoke unit had obviously been run dry and obviously remained so for some time as the smoke box jacket around the smoke stack had begun to melt, sagging down to the engineers side and subsequently started to melt the stack base.

Needless to say I removed it quick smart.

I would have thought there would be some protection in the electronics to prevent this happening, (yeah! I know, it's called an on/off switch under the cab). it also took out the headlight wiring and I have already replaced the decoder once, I am very wary of smoke units in model locos.

Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under.

[thomasjmdavis]

No smoke units for me, thanks.  In N scale, they are essentially a 1:4 scale model of the smoke units used in Lionel trains of 60+ years ago, they in no way create a "scale model" of real smoke.

Prototype steam loco with prototype "smoke unit"-

https://youtu.be/5Bg98H6a2DA?t=214

[Mark5]

Not particularly interested in N smoke either. Hopefully if BLI does it you will be able to easily disable it similar to their HO locos.

From the Paragon 4 steam manual:

If your engine is equipped with a smoke generator, DO
NOT OPERATE THE SMOKE UNIT WITHOUT SMOKE FLUID.
Doing so will damage the engine.
The smoke unit heater can be physically turned off using
the switch located beneath the cab. If the switch is on, the
smoke can be turned on and off using the AUX button on
the DC Master, or F7 on your DCC controller. By default,
smoke will be “on” when the locomotive is first started.
Setting CV246 to 0 will make the smoke unit default to
“off”.

http://www.broadway-limited2.com/support/Paragon%204%20HO%20Steam%20Manual%20(3.12.2021).pdf

Mark

[Maletrain]

Of course, what we see coming out of the smoke stack in most pictures and videos is actually mostly steam - which is why it is mostly white.  And it chuffs because it is the exhaust from the cylinders (used to induce draft through the firebox and boiler tubes).

So, "smoke units" really don't do anything for my appreciation of a locomotive model.

[thomasjmdavis]

Of course, what we see coming out of the smoke stack in most pictures and videos is actually mostly steam - which is why it is mostly white.  And it chuffs because it is the exhaust from the cylinders (used to induce draft through the firebox and boiler tubes).

So, "smoke units" really don't do anything for my appreciation of a locomotive model.

True, of course, so here is what one looks like idling with little steam, mostly smoke (american-rails Big Boy page)- smoke units just don't do it justice.  I suppose we should be happy about that, since it would make a mess of our layouts, and stink up the whole room in short order if it were prototypical-

[mmagliaro]

Yes, I was referencing the Milwaukee Road engine.   As a current fan trip locomotive it should have sold better....but then , it isn’t a Big Boy or GG1.   
Two important widely used prototypes still need to be done well..the USRA 0-6-0 and Heavy 2-10-2.   
Both have been done poorly...the train set Bachmann switcher and the Con-Cor 2-10-2 which was an inexplicably over stretch-distorted copy of the Kato Mikado.
The 0-6-0 especially has some solid popular road originals and clones.
Charlie Vlk

Hear hear!  There's a reason my 3-year "battle against the elements" was to produce an SP&S 0-6-0 - that was one wheel arrangement I was  sure wasn't going to show up in a good running commercial model any time soon.  Sadly, I think that is still true.

[MetroRedLine]

One of these days, we'll have holographic technology that can project somewhat-realistic "smoke" coming out of a model loco (and at a rate that's to scale). Come to think of it, that would be an interesting technological advance in the hobby; they can have versions that can project weather effects like rain or snow.

[peteski]

No smoke units for me, thanks.  In N scale, they are essentially a 1:4 scale model of the smoke units used in Lionel trains of 60+ years ago, they in no way create a "scale model" of real smoke.

Prototype steam loco with prototype "smoke unit"-

https://youtu.be/5Bg98H6a2DA?t=214

While smoke simulation in N scale is totally unrealistic, it is amazing what can be done in larger scale models. Here are some smoking Gauge 1 models.  Amazingly realistic (including the "steam" from cylinder purge, and also some steam leaking between the loco and the tender).  But if they use standard oily smoke fluid, the layout room must stink, and the oil residue is probably on every piece of scenery.

[mike_lawyer]

Yes, I was referencing the Milwaukee Road engine.   As a current fan trip locomotive it should have sold better....but then , it isn’t a Big Boy or GG1.   
Two important widely used prototypes still need to be done well..the USRA 0-6-0 and Heavy 2-10-2.   
Both have been done poorly...the train set Bachmann switcher and the Con-Cor 2-10-2 which was an inexplicably over stretch-distorted copy of the Kato Mikado.
The 0-6-0 especially has some solid popular road originals and clones.
Charlie Vlk

Totally agree Charlie, good running and well made heavy 2-10-2 and 0-6-0 USRA mechanisms really need to be made.  With regard to the 2-10-2, I am working with another forum member to possibly create a chassis that would accept Kato Mikado drivers and parts.  I would like to create a chassis where the 5th driver is geared.  Basically a Kato Mikado with a 5th geared driver.

[keeper]

I once bought an Arnold BR 18 steamer to go with their Rheingold passenger car set.
The smoke unit never worked well unless the loco was running at high speed/high track voltage, and it did leave an oily residue across the top of the loco.
The LHS from which I purchased the loco had ordered it from Walthers who, at least at that time, had a 'satisfaction guaranteed or your money back' policy, so the loco was returned for a refund.

That's exactly the reason why I shut off the smoke unit on both locos.

On a second thought, wouldn't that be a good start for aging a steamer? Sprinkle some dirt powder on the oil residue and it looks real filthy.... 

Thomas

[bbunge]

I always liked the shine on my Postwar Lionel 736 that was a result of the oil, almost to the point that I considered using some oil to glossen up some of my other Lionel non-smoking steamers.

I would guess BLI has the technology down through their HO experience... but it would seem to me a fan would have a difficult time getting the exhaust cycle fast enough, especially at speed.  That good 'ol 736 uses a cam driven off the first driver axle to flap a piece of tin under the generator that does it all, both the the "puff" and the speed synch. 

Bob

[greenwizard88]

Not particularly interested in N smoke either. Hopefully if BLI does it you will be able to easily disable it similar to their HO locos.

From the Paragon 4 steam manual:

If your engine is equipped with a smoke generator, DO
NOT OPERATE THE SMOKE UNIT WITHOUT SMOKE FLUID.
Doing so will damage the engine.
The smoke unit heater can be physically turned off using
the switch located beneath the cab. If the switch is on, the
smoke can be turned on and off using the AUX button on
the DC Master, or F7 on your DCC controller. By default,
smoke will be “on” when the locomotive is first started.
Setting CV246 to 0 will make the smoke unit default to
“off”.

http://www.broadway-limited2.com/support/Paragon%204%20HO%20Steam%20Manual%20(3.12.2021).pdf

Mark

That's interesting, as IIRC the paragon3 series had thermometers that would prevent burnout if they were run without fluid. I wonder if that was removed as a feature, or am I misremembering?