ESU Announces V5 73199 Kato "K1" style, and new Nano Sound Decoders

[reinhardtjh]

I'm definitely not happy.  Seems like ESU didn't  listen to the customer's pleas for thinner and smaller wire-in decoder.  They took the easy way out by installing a connector on it which makes it universal.  But their design simplification makes it tougher on custom decoder installers.  I guess that a true wire-in decoder is the thing of the past. 

Looks that way.  In the same board real estate they dedicated to the connector, they could have spot soldered on the 8 or 10 wires needed for most installations.  Instead there is a connector which allows them to plug it into one of the larger motherboards, but that does not help the N-Scale or small loco enthusiast.

Maybe once they come out we can source the connector and someone like @Wutter or @skent can come up with a better solution.

[RBrodzinsky]

What is the “ultra” decoder with the solder pads? I couldn’t understand enough to get that (and what was the decoder with the attached speaker)

[Wutter]

What is the “ultra” decoder with the solder pads? I couldn’t understand enough to get that (and what was the decoder with the attached speaker)

The third one in the back is a Doehler & Haass SD05A: https://doehler-haass.de/cms/pages/produkte/soundsystem/sd05a.php

The fourth one with the speaker is a CT Electronik SL76: http://www.tran.at/Produkte/SL76.shtml

[daniel_leavitt2000]

A lot of these issues could be mitigated by using a flexible ribbon connector to wire, instead of a hard, thick PC board. This is how most connectors in phones and laptops are set up.

[trainzluvr]

It is possible these design decisions are a result of simplification in order to streamline products across the board, or possibly proprietarize the offering (product lock-in).

Many companies choose to cut corners wherever they can in order to squeeze every bit of profit left, as if the margins weren't paper thin already. Some even gamble their reputation, if driven by somewhat unobtainable profit targets.

Another "classic" move is to obsolete a somewhat good product (in our case a v4 decoder) in favour of a lesser one (v5 ??), especially if the previous product offered the customer better ROE/value for the money.

Not to say I know what ESU's motivation is, but they appear not to have been paying attention (deliberately or not) to what their customers were looking for, at least in this product category.

[RBrodzinsky]

ESU had to redesign the V4/Select decoders and obsolete them.  Components on them had gone end-of-life and could no longer be sourced (at least at what their volumes probably are - at a reasonable cost).

[reinhardtjh]

It is possible these design decisions are a result of simplification in order to streamline products across the board, or possibly proprietarize the offering (product lock-in).

Many companies choose to cut corners wherever they can in order to squeeze every bit of profit left, as if the margins weren't paper thin already. Some even gamble their reputation, if driven by somewhat unobtainable profit targets.

Another "classic" move is to obsolete a somewhat good product (in our case a v4 decoder) in favour of a lesser one (v5 ??), especially if the previous product offered the customer better ROE/value for the money.

Not to say I know what ESU's motivation is, but they appear not to have been paying attention (deliberately or not) to what their customers were looking for, at least in this product category.

ESU had to redesign the V4/Select decoders and obsolete them.  Components on them had gone end-of-life and could no longer be sourced (at least at what their volumes probably are - at a reasonable cost).

In addition, capability-wise the V5 is a great advancement over the V4/Select.  The only issue is size and format and that seems to be the designer/management's choice.

[peteski]

A lot of these issues could be mitigated by using a flexible ribbon connector to wire, instead of a hard, thick PC board. This is how most connectors in phones and laptops are set up.

Yes, using flexible circuit board instead of wires would be an excellent advancement . . . for models with factory installed decoders.  No more rat's nest of wires and those usually take up less room than wires.  I own a model (European prototype) where thy almost exclusively used flexible circuit boards.  Very impressive.

But in great majority if cases, that flexible circuit is terminated in a miniature connector, and even if wires were to be soldered to it, that would still not be optimal for making the decoder as compact as possible.  The other problem these flexible circuits are fairly fragile.  The copper traces can easily separate during soldering (don't ask how I know).  Because of that, this solution doesn't' strike me as feasible.

[trainzluvr]

I know I was generalizing in my observation, so if v5 is an overal improvement over v4, even better.

Hopefully there will be a way to work around these few "deficiencies", just like it had been done with v4, once v5 is in everyone's hands.

[peteski]

I know I was generalizing in my observation, so if v5 is an overal improvement over v4, even better.

Hopefully there will be a way to work around these few "deficiencies", just like it had been done with v4, once v5 is in everyone's hands.

What were V4 deficiencies?  We did have a true wired micro decoder that was nice and thin.  Maybe the V4 micro's width (slightly too wide for narrow-hood diesels) could be its deficiency?
With V5, so far the Next18-to-wires adapter excessive thickness remains unresolved.

[cgw]

Bottom side of Nano and connector.


Given this new information about the Nano, I'm curious what that "Ultra" is (the farthest from the ruler)
[/quote]

that ultra is a Doehner & Haass  sd50A sound decoder.it is one of the smaller one out in the field.   Files are limited to DB/OBB and Reniefe loco's.   It is not a bad little decoder but it has no N/A loco sound support

[Lemosteam]

Instead of a perpendicular pin design, why couldn't they just have extended the pins parallel to the board off the end and have a small multi-pin connector come on from the end of the board?  If one did not want to do that you could simply solder wires onto the pins.  That would seem to keep the overal hight of the connection within the boundary of the height of the decoder itself.

[trainzluvr]

What were V4 deficiencies?  We did have a true wired micro decoder that was nice and thin.  Maybe the V4 micro's width (slightly too wide for narrow-hood diesels) could be its deficiency?
With V5, so far the Next18-to-wires adapter excessive thickness remains unresolved.

I was referring to possible v5 deficiencies - v4 was a decent decoder that was used far and wide...

[conrad]

Bottom side of Nano and connector.


Given this new information about the Nano, I'm curious what that "Ultra" is (the farthest from the ruler)


that ultra is a Doehner & Haass  sd50A sound decoder.it is one of the smaller one out in the field.   Files are limited to DB/OBB and Reniefe loco's.   It is not a bad little decoder but it has no N/A loco sound support

Check out the sound files on the Doehner & Haass site: https://doehler-haass.de/cms/pages/produkte/soundsystem/soundprojekte.php

Maybe, just maybe, some German and/or Spanish files can replicate American locos.  I'm slowly working my way through their 90 of so examples.

The site not only has sound but in some cases videos of the models in action.   

I like the fact that the SD05A comes without a connector but with three connection formats: solder pads or pre-wired with 8 individual conductors  or pre-wired with a 6 conductor flat cable plus 2 speaker conductors.  It's unfortunate that ESU isn't doing that.

Conrad

[jdcolombo]

I think it is very unfortunate that ESU chose the generic connector route for the new Nano.  Soldered wires or ribbon cable would have been much preferred, at least by me.

But before I bury it, I'll wait to get my hands on one to take actual measurements.  No matter what, the narrower width is a big deal for hood diesel installations.  And when we get the decoder in hand, we might find that it is similar to the old Select Micro, which had a very thin end offsetting a rather thick opposite end.  It was that (probably accidental) design that made some installations (e.g., the Atlas Classic RS-3) possible that would not be possible with the "two thick ends" of the current 5 DCC Micro decoder.  The Nano might end up with a similar "thin end" based on the photos I've seen, but we'll need real data to confirm or deny this.

John C.