Question regarding Athearn/MDC/Roundhouse locos

[Lemosteam]

@brokemoto Thanks. A loss I am sure.

[narrowminded]

I have been meaning to ask if you have ever used brass foil to wrap a shell.  K&S sell it. Was thinking that if I could put rivets on the model, wrap the brass over the side with .005 thick foil, the rivets could be embossed as you wrap by burnishing the metal with a stick. sounds messy though and prone to mistakes. I dunno.

Not asked of me but I have successfully used aluminum foil as a wrap, applied with Elmer's glue, pressed in place with fingers and then a soft cloth to blot and smooth.  It worked really well on a relatively square box (a truck trailer) that had some raised features like bolt heads or ribs.  It smoothed over all surfaces perfectly, left the details perfectly, and was able to be trimmed as needed with an exacto blade, finally cleaned up with water to the natural foil/ metal look.  I might even have used the side of a toothpick to burnish where necessary.  It is still together to this day, at least five years later and still looks good, showing no signs of failure.

That background is offered to suggest trying the method on something laying around, using aluminum foil and Elmer's, see if it works for you.  I definitely would try to use thinner than .005" and maybe even stay with aluminum foil instead of brass as I think it may be more forgiving when taking the form of the details.  If you measure aluminum foil expect it to be closer to .001" thick, nowhere near .005".  Let us know how that works... or doesn't.

[peteski]

Mark, Elmers is a water-based PVA glue. For it to harden/set the water has to evaporate.  How does the water evaporate from a glue layer that is confined between 2 solid surfaces (plastic shell and metal)?  I would think that the glue would never set?  Plus PVA is not a very good glue for hard smooth surfaces.

If anything I would have tried using epoxy glue. It sticks well to smooth surfaces and hardens by chemical reaction (not solvent evaporation). Or even contact cement (since the solvent evaporates before the parts are brought in contact).

[narrowminded]

Mark, Elmers is a water-based PVA glue. For it to harden/set the water has to evaporate.  How does the water evaporate from a glue layer that is confined between 2 solid surfaces (plastic shell and metal)?  I would think that the glue would never set?  Plus PVA is not a very good glue for hard smooth surfaces.

If anything I would have tried using epoxy glue. It sticks well to smooth surfaces and hardens by chemical reaction (not solvent evaporation). Or even contact cement (since the solvent evaporates before the parts are brought in contact).

I understand that and wasn't sure it would work at all.  It was a goofy trial performed at my brother's place around Xmas time, just for that season to get a piece done for the immediate, and it was one of those surprises that I would definitely use again.  The stuff can dry from the edges, maybe, maybe not, but if not then it becomes a hydraulic effect, still stable from the very thin, air free span and the dried perimeter affording the seal... or the vent to atmosphere and drying.  Maybe think of a suction cup at work.   Either way, it works. 

I'm sure you have some aluminum foil and a styrene piece you could try this on.  Shiny side or brushed side up, see what happens.  I think you'll like it.  We can analyze the science of it all later.

[glakedylan]

Not asked of me but I have successfully used aluminum foil as a wrap, applied with Elmer's glue, pressed in place with fingers and then a soft cloth to blot and smooth. 

Mark, I would love to see a photo of this shell. Sounds like it holds several possibilities that might be explored.
If you have a photo (or more than one) would you kindly post them here?


thanks
sincerely
Gary

[peteski]

I'm sure you have some aluminum foil and a styrene piece you could try this on.  Shiny side or brushed side up, see what happens.  I think you'll like it.  We can analyze the science of it all later.

That's alright, I have better things to do with my time (like posting lengthy speculative posts in online forums).    I was just curious if there was any thought involved, or you just slapped it together?  It would be fun to find out if you peeled those parts apart, would the glue still be liquid in the center? 

How many licks does it take to get to the center of the Tootsie-Pop?  We might never know. 

[glakedylan]

Current progress on the PRR-ization of the Ahearn model.  Trying to recreate the H3a class at the RRMPA on the Ahearn chassis:

John, this is really a very cool conversion. I am following with the expectation of be able to do something similar but with a 2-6-0 from a different manufacturer.


It looks like you are 3D printing the cab with the belpaire fire box shape at front?
Will you be making these available? I would be interested in a few.
Keep up the fantastic work. Be well and stay safe.


sincerely
Gary

[Lemosteam]

@narrowminded, Thanks for the confirmation. 

@glakedylan , this design will only fit an Athearn locomotive.  The Belpaire is separate, but like on the prototype, the backhead is nearly to the end of the cab.

[Lemosteam]

Mark, Elmers is a water-based PVA glue. For it to harden/set the water has to evaporate.  How does the water evaporate from a glue layer that is confined between 2 solid surfaces (plastic shell and metal)?  I would think that the glue would never set?  Plus PVA is not a very good glue for hard smooth surfaces.

If anything I would have tried using epoxy glue. It sticks well to smooth surfaces and hardens by chemical reaction (not solvent evaporation). Or even contact cement (since the solvent evaporates before the parts are brought in contact).

@peteski However, if used on FUD, the evap can happen through the material as FUD is not watertight until saturated with paint.

[Chris333]

I don't understand the foil?  Is it to smooth out the FUD wax build lines?

Never tried it, but there is also Bare Metal Foil that has an adhesive backing.

[narrowminded]

The piece I did this on was a styrene box trailer, HO size approximate, and was just a toy being utilized in an under the tree Xmas train for the kids.  It was silly, wild a$$ attempt to make a silly toy look better and fill in some time while hanging out with family.  The surprise was how well it actually worked and how excellent it looked.  Better than any paint as it's aluminum, modelling an aluminum trailer.  Years later, it's still around and still looking perfect.  I would definitely use the method another day. 

Again, for anyone interested, go to the kitchen, get a piece of foil and a paper towel, raid the kid's art box for some Elmer's, and just try a piece.   You can always remove it and wash it off if you're not happy.

[Lemosteam]

I don't understand the foil?  Is it to smooth out the FUD wax build lines?

Never tried it, but there is also Bare Metal Foil that has an adhesive backing.

@Chris333 It would be similar to what you have done with etched wraps, without etching, and much thinner.

Yes I was also thinking of adhesive backed products too.

[narrowminded]

Yes I was also thinking of adhesive backed products too.

I think that the Elmer's has a desirable feature as it remains liquid, lubricates for the minor shifting that may be needed, and is readily displaced leaving only the thinnest of coatings between the foil and the part.  Excess is easily cleaned up.  Try a piece.

Maybe it will only work well on a regular shaped box type part and not for this boiler application but it's definitely worth a try and I feel it has a place, maybe only when modelling trailers.   I haven't done anything more than that so I don't have any more specifics to add.  Try a piece.

[Chris333]

I have used and etched rapper on a 3D tender, but it was just to get the rivet detail.

From the flare down is etched brass:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sHDs7qodupyTi2CEA

But I just happened to have the brass. Since then this tender is all 3D:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fbTqr77hvGCMkkY16
https://photos.app.goo.gl/12WfEE5wKhHBDqcu7

[SkipGear]

I've done similar with foil. It works very well. I used it to recreate a standing seam roof on a caboose. Brass wire was laid down where the rib was to be. Then I glued and burnished the foil over top. I used Micro Crystal clear as my glue though mainly because that was what I had handy at the time. You may have to be careful with embossed rivets but it should still work.