Alternative to Neo-Lube?

[jym1]

Hiya, folks. I'm wondering if anyone has found an alternative to Neo-Lube. Since it can't be shipped abroad by any website I've checked (hazardous material?) and it costs an arm and a leg here in Japan (Wouldja believe $80!), I'd like to try something like it that can be brushed on my steamers' shiny running-gear. Regards, Jim Maurer

[mmagliaro]

There is a product out there called "Aquadag E".  It is colloidal graphite solution in WATER, not alcohol.  Since it is not flammable, it is probably easier to have shipped overseas.  Once you get it, you could experiment with mixing some with alcohol and applying it to model surfaces, vs applying the stock product out of the bottle.  It would be very useful to have an alternative that isn't flammable, even if we MAKE it flammable when we get it.

[jym1]

Max, thanks for the quick response and suggestion for using Aquadag. I checked the web and the few places that sell it (very few, actually) either don't ship it internationally or charge way more than NeoLube! My daughter is a FA with UAL and I thought I'd ask her to try to "smuggle" a jar of NeoLube into Japan, but UAL has cancelled all flights to Japan. So, my steamers will have to be ugly-ducklings for a while. Thanks again for your help. Regards, Jim

[Simon D.]

I'm in the UK and have had the same sort of problem. I'm sure that everything technical is available in Japan. Search for colloidal graphite in water or alcohol, you may find something then.


Good luck!

[narrowminded]

I purchased some Neo-Lube and have used it.  It does look appropriate for many of our finishes but is not as durable as a plating or paint.  That's OK for most places where it's appropriate. 

Something that I believe is true, going back to my industrial days and bolt lubrication for SS assemblies, is mixing graphite powder with alcohol.  I think that's all Neo-Lube is, basically.  Neo-Lube as it's sold may very well have quality control specs that drill down on the material dimension and purity specs for the recommended mil spec use in nuclear assemblies, but I think it's basically graphite powder suspended in alcohol, with alcohol as a carrier for smooth, thin, application that creeps into every nook and cranny where it is applied.  If that's true, and I think it is having used both at some point, you could mix up your own. 

I would try any alcohol readily available (70%?) but if that doesn't work well I wouldn't give up until I tried to get the purest alcohol (99% IPA or maybe denatured) just to be sure I gave it a fair chance and if what I'm suggesting, that Neo-Lube is basically just graphite suspended in alcohol, they probably use a pretty pure alcohol.  As far as getting the graphite powder?  Readily available at the hardware store in a small tube as dry lube for applying to the internals of lock mechanisms. 

Anybody who tries this, let us know if it works.  I think it will.

Edit add:  And then if THAT works, maybe a very small addition of some shellac to the mix.  Totally alcohol based and maybe that would add a hint of durability to the mix without messing up the appearance.  For the scientists among us, start the experiment with just a drop or two added to a smidgen.  Work the rest from that baseline.   We may have a whole new tool available to us! 

[Chinapig]

Hi Simon,
If you're in the UK try this stuff.  I believe it's exactly the same. 

https://taab.co.uk/pdf-details/264_taab_products_1252510120.pdf

Their email address is: sales@taab.co.uk

Cheers, Ted

[Maletrain]

From the Neolube website: "The composition of this material is 99% pure furnace graphite particles, a thermoplastic resin and  isopropanol."

Specs:

  Total Solids Content, weight percent  3.3% +/- 0.50%

  Graphite Content, percent of total solids   75% +/- 5%

 Particle size, microns     
       Maximum dimensions of 90% of the particles:  4 Microns
       Maximum dimensions of any particle:   10 Microns

Seems pretty DIY, except maybe for that "thermoplastic resin" bit.  But, if we don't need it to withstand 400°F or 1,000,000,000 rads of ionizing radiation, then maybe a bit of shellac would do the trick.


 

 

[fire5506]

I'm wondering if they don't heat the thermoplastic resin mix in the graphite and let cool, then grind it down to the 4 - 10 micron size before mixing in the alcohol. Might make it a little harder that straight graphite which is pretty soft.

[fire5506]

Know anyone that works in a nuclear power plant over there?

COLLOIDAL GRAPHITE IN ISOPROPANOL (NEOLUBE 1)
Neolube No. 1 is a dry film, conductive lubricant, used extensively at nuclear power generating plants and other nuclear facilities as an anti-seize compound, thread lubricant and for lubricating moving parts and rubbing surfaces. The composition of this material is 99% pure furnace graphite particles, a thermoplastic resin and  isopropanol.  The material has excellent radiation resistance and high chemical purity.  The thin, non-corrosive film of Neolube No. 1 prevents seizing, fretting, galling and resists abrasion.  It is easy to apply by spray, dip or brush and has excellent adhesion after a fast air dry.  The dry film of Neolube No. 1 will not migrate and it is non freezable.
http://www.newmantools.com/chemicals/neolube1pds.htm
COLLOIDAL GRAPHITE IN ISOPROPANOL (NEOLUBE 2)
NEOLUBE NO. 2 is an exceptionally stable compound of processed micro graphite and thermoplastic resin in isopropyl alcohol. NEOLUBE NO. 2 is a dry film conductive lubricant used extensively at nuclear power generating plants and other nuclear facilities as an anti-seize compound, thread lubricant and for lubricating moving parts and rubbing surfaces. NEOLUBE NO. 2 resists abrasion and lubricates threaded parts, moving parts and rubbing surfaces. NEOLUBE NO. 2 has excellent radiation resistance and high chemical purity. It does not migrate and is non-freezable. NEOLUBE NO. 2 provides a non-corrosive dry adherent lubrication for metal parts with limited clearances in applications where control of impurities is required. Neolube No. 2 has been used successfully in applications where it has withstood radiation levels of 1 x 109 rads.
http://www.newmantools.com/chemicals/neo2pds.htm

[mmagliaro]

Yeah, I've read all the MSDS and the formula sheets and other descriptions of the product.  That thermoplastic resin could be more important than we think.  While Neolube does come off with repeated mechanical wear (which is why it doesn't last on loco driver treads), on engine bodies and detail parts, it's pretty darn tenacious and does a great job.

I agree that graphite powder is pretty easy to get, and experiments are in order to see if something similar could be mixed so that we wouldn't have these shipping problems!  When I was repackaging the stuff straight from Huron Industries and passing it on at a discount to everybody, I ran into the same problem.  I couldn't even mail it to Canada.

[peteski]

So what exactly is the difference between #1 and #2?  Both are powdered graphite and resin in alcohol. Which one did you get Max?

As far as rolling your own, I wonder if what Maletrain mentioned would work? Just get some powdered graphite, alcohol, and mix in some shellac (or some type of clear coating soluble in alcohol) as the binder.  After all, we use it for cosmetic purposes than for its lubricity or durability.

[C62-2]

Jim,

I'm not sure if you've seen this or not, but Imon has neolube (ネオリューブ) for sale on their website (imon.co.jp). With tax and shipping, it's less than $80 (although it's still quite expensive).

[mmagliaro]

I don't know the difference between #1 and #2.  I bought #2 because that's what Micromark and other "hobby" places sell.

[Simon D.]

@Chinapig


Many thanks.  I got some of Taab's colloidal graphite in water, and have also experimented on old locos with Graphit 33 (got it on Ebay), which is a graphite lubricant spray.  This comes out grey - see the first pic - but can be coloured with black indian ink - second pic - after decanting from the can.  it does come off fairly easily, so may experiment with varnish/shellac as suggested.


Simon

[Chinapig]

Hi Simon,
The products you mention appear to give really good results.  I've had my bottle of TAAB for a few years now and reckon it will last for more than a lifetime so I'm very unlikely to but anything else.
I do believe the TAAB stuff is also used by the nuclear industry.
Cheers, Ted