Operations on the Rio Grande Southern First District

[wm3798]

So it sounds like you'll need some staging at Rico.. or rather, just beyond it.  Have you made any provision for staging in the track plan?  (Sorry if I've missed it if that was already discussed... I've been swamped with work).

Lee

[Dave V]

So it sounds like you'll need some staging at Rico.. or rather, just beyond it.  Have you made any provision for staging in the track plan?  (Sorry if I've missed it if that was already discussed... I've been swamped with work).

Lee

I actually don't think I need staging at Rico.  I modeled the Rico Yard the way it really was, minus the scale track that wasn't used very much in my era.  There are three parallel tracks between the depot and the engine house that are about 10 feet long.  One's the main, one's a passing siding, and one is--for lack of a better word--a "relay" track where cars from the Second District are left for First District trains and vice versa.  It's long enough to accommodate both the drop-offs and the pickups for a session.  Because ideally, the Second District relay pickups are there when the First District train arrives from Ridgway.  Worst case I can use the house track as a run around and use both the relay and passing tracks for sorting out the fun.  That way I'm working it more like the real thing.  I can have the Second District train arrive Rico and drop off if coming from Ridgway staging, but that isn't necessary...most time I'll want to start with the cars in place on the relay track.  It's like an interchange track really.

[Hawghead]

I actually don't think I need staging at Rico.

But you have staging at Rico, it's just online staging as opposed to "hidden" staging. (In case it's not clear, I'm supporting your argument)  Another thing to keep in mind is that during the period you are modeling, almost all the pictures I've seen of both Rico and Ridgway, the yard tracks were fairly empty.  I would imagine that due to a lack of traffic, the yards didn't fill up much.  A train would come in, do some switching, then would depart.

Scott

[Dave V]

But you have staging at Rico, it's just online staging as opposed to "hidden" staging. (In case it's not clear, I'm supporting your argument)  Another thing to keep in mind is that during the period you are modeling, almost all the pictures I've seen of both Rico and Ridgway, the yard tracks were fairly empty.  I would imagine that due to a lack of traffic, the yards didn't fill up much.  A train would come in, do some switching, then would depart.

Scott

I guess it’s a matter of semantics. I view staging as a place to park a whole train until you need it.  But yes, I think I have all the capacity that I need. I will very likely have to remove a considerable number of the rail cars that I just have sitting out… My yards are way more full than the prototype!

[nscalbitz]

... That way I'm working it more like the real thing. ... It's like an interchange track really.

Dave
Sounds realistic enough to me too!
Throw in an 'Extra' (urgent supplies or empties for x); a work train or helper/ transfer or a 'priority' passenger baggage car with 'precious metals' on board,  and you have added realism and conflict opportunity!
As for the 'main', didn't they often just 'park' a train out of town on many of these lines while the switching got done locally?
I'm for the 'bigger local' D&RG(W) but like variety - at least in my virtual world 
regards
davew

[Hawghead]

@Dave V

I've been thinking about ops again.  Specifically how engines and cabooses...cabeese? were handled on interchange trains.

Stock trains loaded at Rico went to Ridgway then on to Montrose (at least a number of them did).  Now the train would have had RGS power and a caboose Rico to Ridgway, however once it got to Ridgway, I'm assuming the engine/engines and caboose would be replaced with D&RGW units correct?  So the question becomes where did these engines and cabooses come from?  Did they come light from Montrose or Ouray?  Would there be D&RGW engines and cabooses stored at Ridgway, or were the stock cars held at Ridgway until an Ouray-Montrose train came through and the stock cars were added to that?  The same questions could apply to oil trains Durango-Montrose.  In addition, did the D&RGW ever use the RGS engine facilities at Ridgway (turn table, sand, water, coal or the roundhouse for light repairs)?

Thanks,
Scott 

[Dave V]

@Dave V

I've been thinking about ops again.  Specifically how engines and cabooses...cabeese? were handled on interchange trains.

Stock trains loaded at Rico went to Ridgway then on to Montrose (at least a number of them did).  Now the train would have had RGS power and a caboose Rico to Ridgway, however once it got to Ridgway, I'm assuming the engine/engines and caboose would be replaced with D&RGW units correct?  So the question becomes where did these engines and cabooses come from?  Did they come light from Montrose or Ouray?  Would there be D&RGW engines and cabooses stored at Ridgway, or were the stock cars held at Ridgway until an Ouray-Montrose train came through and the stock cars were added to that?  The same questions could apply to oil trains Durango-Montrose.  In addition, did the D&RGW ever use the RGS engine facilities at Ridgway (turn table, sand, water, coal or the roundhouse for light repairs)?

Thanks,
Scott

Great question.  There was an engine terminal at Montrose and virtually no photographic evidence of D&RGW power hanging out at Ridgway unless they were being leased by the RGS for RGS use.  It's a relatively flat and fast run to Ridgway from Montrose...about 25 miles or so...so it appears that the D&RGW just went and "got" them when they needed to.  For day to day operations, most of the interchange traffic came from the Montrose to Ouray turn.  They'd drop stuff off for the RGS on the way to Ouray and pick up stuff on the way back.  It's possible this happened with stock movements too, but given the time constraints, it seems unlikely. 

From a discussion that was had on the RGS Yahoo Group (I know, I know...its it 1997?), actual dispatch sheets show engines from Montrose terminal doing Ridgway "turns," picking up the stock at Ridgway as soon as it came in without running all the way to Ouray.  It also appears that the stock yards at Ridgway were worked directly by D&RGW crews rather than RGS, at least in later years.

Dave
Sounds realistic enough to me too!
Throw in an 'Extra' (urgent supplies or empties for x); a work train or helper/ transfer or a 'priority' passenger baggage car with 'precious metals' on board,  and you have added realism and conflict opportunity!
As for the 'main', didn't they often just 'park' a train out of town on many of these lines while the switching got done locally?
I'm for the 'bigger local' D&RG(W) but like variety - at least in my virtual world 
regards
davew

Yes and yes!  I'm building up a healthy collection of MoW (or B&B, for "Bridge and Building" as the RGS called it) cars.  Photos and videos show that very often work cars were added to extra freights.  That presents some operational fun, because that could push a train over its tonnage rating, requiring a helper.  Could also require "doubling" the hill.

Blocking the main is exactly what the RGS would do.  The only regularly scheduled trains you'd have to avoid were the Geese, and the only thing regular about a Galloping Goose is that it was regularly behind schedule.  Because the Geese were more agile than an ancient freight train made of wooden truss-rod cars on archbar trucks, it was more common for the Goose to take the hole and let the freight do its thing, schedule and mail contract be damned.

It would be unusual in the last decade for there to be more than one traditional steam-powered freight train on the north end of the RGS at any given time...so blocking the main to switch was hardly a concern to anyone.

[narrowminded]

I have toured this region, multiple visits over the years, and love the history so it's been very interesting to follow this build and now these ops discussions.   Yes, the modelling is truly GREAT but the story is just as interesting to me.    Carry on.

[wm3798]

The only thing that would give rise to the need for additional "off-stage" staging would be a preponderance of thru traffic, which it doesn't sound like you have much of.  A simple interchange track will do.

The trick would be if there is a train or two that contain equipment that wouldn't ordinarily be spotted on the modeled portion of the layout, so it would be passing through.  These cars are handy for fleshing out longer trains, but again, I don't think that's what your ops are set up for.

I used to have whole blocks of cars that did nothing but move from staging to staging in a rotation.  Auto racks, foreign road cars with no local stops, specialized movements... you know... bridge traffic.  Out of a 25 or 30 car train, there might be 40-60% of the cars that would be set outs at Ridgely, but the rest just moved about to make the trains longer.  I still did car cards, since something moving east might be a thru move, then coming back west it would be cut out for a local move.  Kept things from looking too stagnant.  At one point I had about 300 cars on the layout at any given moment, with more than 100 of them being hoppers.  Definitely needed more staging than you ever will!  Although I see those kit seeds you keep planting... sooner or later they will sprout into a fleet of more cars!

Lee

[Dave V]

The only thing that would give rise to the need for additional "off-stage" staging would be a preponderance of thru traffic, which it doesn't sound like you have much of.  A simple interchange track will do.

The trick would be if there is a train or two that contain equipment that wouldn't ordinarily be spotted on the modeled portion of the layout, so it would be passing through.  These cars are handy for fleshing out longer trains, but again, I don't think that's what your ops are set up for.

I used to have whole blocks of cars that did nothing but move from staging to staging in a rotation.  Auto racks, foreign road cars with no local stops, specialized movements... you know... bridge traffic.  Out of a 25 or 30 car train, there might be 40-60% of the cars that would be set outs at Ridgely, but the rest just moved about to make the trains longer.  I still did car cards, since something moving east might be a thru move, then coming back west it would be cut out for a local move.  Kept things from looking too stagnant.  At one point I had about 300 cars on the layout at any given moment, with more than 100 of them being hoppers.  Definitely needed more staging than you ever will!  Although I see those kit seeds you keep planting... sooner or later they will sprout into a fleet of more cars!

Lee

Now...  I do have several East Broad Top hoppers.  No reason other than I love the EBT.  I could be convinced to acquire another if Laurel Valley decals could be scaled to fit an HO narrow gauge steel hopper.

You have your homework assignment.

[wm3798]

Duly noted.  I'm fresh out of lettering sets at the moment, but there seems to be a growing market among my HO scale followers...
Do me a favor, and get me a good broadside of a steel hopper with a scale rule in it for reference.

I'm working up a sheet of steam era markings, and I'm sure I can make something work on an N scale boxcar as well as an HOn3 hopper...  Not sure where on the map the interchange would be, but we can sort that out later.  LRV was never far from Broad Top Mountain...

Lee

[Dave V]

Duly noted.  I'm fresh out of lettering sets at the moment, but there seems to be a growing market among my HO scale followers...
Do me a favor, and get me a good broadside of a steel hopper with a scale rule in it for reference.

I'm working up a sheet of steam era markings, and I'm sure I can make something work on an N scale boxcar as well as an HOn3 hopper...  Not sure where on the map the interchange would be, but we can sort that out later.  LRV was never far from Broad Top Mountain...

Lee

So...  Great question.  And yeah, I'll get you that shot this evening.  But how do I get EBT traffic on the RGS you ask?   Through the magic of the San Juan Central!

Montrose, CO was the intersection of three D&RGW lines...the narrow gauge Ouray branch (which connected with the RGS at Ridgway), the narrow gauge Black Canyon line which ran through Gunnison and over Marshall Pass, and a standard gauge connection to Grande Junction, CO, and the D&RGW standard gauge main to Salt Lake City.

But, according to railroad historian Malcolm Furlow, a fourth narrow gauge line connected at Montrose...the San Juan Central.  And the San Juan central goes wherever it wants and connected with whomever it wants.

So, SJC stuff comes into Ridgway all the time with trackage rights over the D&RGW Ouray Branch.

[wm3798]

Malcolm did drop a lot of acid, didn't he? 

[Dave V]

Malcolm did drop a lot of acid, didn't he? 

Oh I can't speak to that...  Some people are naturally colorful.  I do have to say, my own interactions with the man were great...he's a really nice and down-to-earth guy. 

There was a time I worshipped his work....then there was a time I dismissed it as fantasy...and now I think I finally, really get it.  He always wrote and spoke about creating a mood.  And while his weathering effects were startlingly realistic in many cases when taken individually but could be overwhelming en masse, it was never really about depicting the prototype for him.  It was moving art.  When you looked at his work, you may have had a voice in your head reminding you that they would never have cut a car that swaybacked into a moving train, but the rest of your mind immediately went to Colorado narrow gauge after the silver crash.  Every photo he ever took of his work was designed to evoke a real mood.  Some of my favorites are the low-angle lighting effects...the broadside of the train illuminated by the setting sun with long shadows behind...and I'm transported to the return trip from Silverton on the D&SNG as we ride the final miles back to Durango, exhausted, cinder-covered, and blissfully content.  Very few modelers have been able to make me really feel the way his work does, even if it's not true to prototype.

My RGS set out to avoid some of the over-the-top stuff, particularly the mishmash of eras, the degree of weathering, and some of the "departures from geography (such as saguaro cactus)"...but I still found myself craving some of the mood-evoking magic from the SJC.  To that end I built Windy Point.  Dramatic enough to feel like the SJC, but not quite that far from the real Windy Point (both, actually...the one on the RGS and the one just below Cumbres on the D&RGW/C&TS).  But when you see the SJC you know it's narrow gauge in Colorado and you swear you can smell the pine needles under your feet and hear the rushing alpine streams.  We should all be so good at creating a mood!

[CRL]

I must confess... my return trip on the D&SNG was not blissfully content... just exhausted & cinder covered. And this from riding in the luxury coach at the rear of the train. Going round trip on the same day was too much.

It did give me a real appreciation for my ancestors. In comparison, we’re all a bunch of wimps.