The photos we have of the 3200's that show some of them with yellow roofs...per the Morning Sun book on UP. If theres something unique about it please let me know so I can put it in the files. I have a number of cabeese in the 3200 range with what look to be yellow...no sign of reddish brown on the edges or silver. Any info I can get that I can use going forward will be a big help.
Thanks
Joe
@Shipsure , Joe, first off, you are assuming that the "wooden" caboose you have produced is a U.P. CA-1 caboose, but it isn't. It's a Common Standard CA-class caboose, with the design being derived from an 1893 Southern Pacific Common Standard era design. When Harriman took control of the Southern Pacific, the operating and mechanical departments of both UP and SP were combined in June of 1904, and both roads shared many groups of cars from various car builders, including the SP C-30-1 and UP Common Standard CA-class cabooses.
A Bit of CA-Class Caboose History:The UP Common Standard CA-class caboose (which is the MTL "wooden caboose" model) was adopted as Common Standard for the combined UP-SP system in 1905.
The first official CA-class caboose for the UP-SP trunk line was completed as an SP caboose in the SP Sacramento shops in 1906, and the first CA Common Standard Caboose was ordered in quantity for the UP, SP and many other affiliated Harriman lines, in 1907.
The first 50 CA-class cabooses for the UP were built by Pullman in 1907, with eventually there being 373 CA-class cabooses total being built for the UP from 1905 through 1913.
Correct UP Numbering for the MTL "Wooden Caboose" Model (UP CA-Class Cabooses):MTL "wooden cabooses" (UP CA-class cabooses) are incorrectly numbered if they're numbered in the 3200 group.
CA-class caboose numbers for the UP from 1925 to 1960 were 2280-2299 and 2400-2524.
The numbers for CA-class UP cabooses were different for each UP subsidiary road, those being the OSL (700-797 until 1925, 3055-3147 until 1960), the LA&SL (SP, LA&SL 230-254 & 4255-4275 until 1922, LA&SL 3309-3329 & 3330-3329 until 1960), and lastly the OWR&N (OR&N 249-291, NC 1000-1014, OWR&N 307-330 until 1925, OWR&N 3538-3579, 3580-3594, 3595-3618 until 1960)
For clarity's sake, OSL means "Oregon Short Line", OWR&N means "Oregon-Washington Railway & Navigation Co.", OR&N means "Oregon Railway & Navigation Co.", NC means "North Coast Railroad", and LA&SL means "Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad", all of which were subsidiary railroads of UP when the CA-class cabooses were being manufactured.
During construction of the CA-class "Common Standard" cabooses, several SP cabooses were also built at the same times as the UP cabooses, their designs being essentially identical...or "Common Standard".
The MTL "Wooden Caboose" (CA-Class) VS The UP Class CA-1 Caboose:3200 numbers for UP cabooses were for the next class of UP wooden, riveted steel Bettendorf underframed cars...the Class CA-1 wooden cabooses, which were built between 1914 through 1924.
These cars differed considerably from the earlier Common Standard CA-class cabooses which is the MTL "wooden caboose" model.
There has never been a commercially made N-scale model of UP's unique CA-1 caboose, either in plastic or brass, but it was the most plentiful caboose made for the UP, and was commonly seen on UP's mainlines through the 1960's because of its durable steel frame.
MTL's model of the Common Standard UP and SP caboose broadens the appeal of that model because of the two roads which used the design, but for trains that required a helper on the UP, the helper would have had to have been put on the head end, or the caboose connected behind the helper because the wood/steel composite frame on the CA-class Common Standard cabooses couldn't take the crushing forces of being between the train and the helper. This is why they (the MTL "wooden caboose" model) were quite quickly relegated to branchline and local service, and would not have been seen behind long, mainline freights being pulled by such engines as Big Boys, Challengers, TTT's, 9000's, Turbines, or lashups of diesel units on heavy trains.
Photo (1) - UP CA-class Common Standard caboose (the MTL "wooden caboose" model) in Armour Yellow showing Freight Car Red roof:
Photo (2) - UP Class CA-1 caboose, (NOT the MTL model) which has at least 15 visible differences from the earlier CA-class cabooses:
The most obvious differences between the CA and the CA-1 is that the CA has four windows on each side and either 1 or no windows on the ends. The CA-1 almost always has two windows on the ends, but sometimes only one. The cupola on the CA is 29" forward of the car center, and the CA-1's is 2" forward of the car center, making it much more centered. The smokejacks are on opposite sides of the cars too in different locations. You'll notice a 6" kink in the CA-1's ladder just above the end platform handrail, which is because the roof of the CA-1 overhangs the end platforms on either end by 6" more than the CA's, making the CA-1's roof 1' longer than the CA's roof.
There are a lot of similarities between the cars, the sheathing being the same width and type, the cupolas being the same (if slant-sided) which most of both cabooses were, and the steps being the same most of the time with four steps up to the end platform (some CA-class cabooses had three steps up the platform, which most of the SP versions had), and all of both classes had vertical brakewheels until some were replaced with modern brakewheel stands, some CA-1's having a vertical brakewheel on one end, and a modern brakewheel stand on the other.
Photo (3) - MTL "wooden caboose" wrongly numbered as a CA-1, compared to one of my kitbashed CA-1's (with some minor inaccuracies) showing obvious differences:
UP Armour Yellow Scheme for the CA-Class Caboose in 1948 (The MTL "Wooden Caboose" Model) Photo (4) - CA-class Armour Yellow caboose showing Freight Car Red roof, running boards and Cupola Handhold. This car had its platform steps painted an atypical "Bright Red Enamel" with yellow safety notices on the steps:
As MTL references in their "new releases" bulletin on the website, UP cabooses were freight car red until being repainted to the Armour Yellow scheme starting in 1947...EXCEPT FOR THE CA & CA-1 WOODEN CABOOSES...whose new drawing (303-C-7412) was not changed until January 29, 1948. So, MTL's information about what year UP changed from freight car red (Synthetic Red Freight Car Paint) to yellow (Armour Yellow Freight Car Paint) is incorrect for their "wooden caboose"...the CA-class, and should be 1948 instead of 1947.
Drawing 303-C-7412 titled "Painting, Lettering & Numbering Caboose Cars" from the Union Pacific Railroad Co. Research and Mechanical Standards Division, lists the "roof", "running boards" and "cupola handhold" to be painted "approved Synthetic Red Freight Car Paint"...or a reddish freight car red. UP doesn't differentiate between the car roof and the cupola roof, and considers both to be just "roof".
There were differences in both build and paint applications on prototype UP cabooses and sometimes, there were cabooses that were painted solid Armour Yellow without the Freight Car Red roof & running board, and in some photos the caboose was so dirty from soot from the Big Boys, Challengers and TTT helpers, that it appears as if the roof and cupola are painted black.
But, the official UP Armour Yellow scheme for their wooden cabooses is as I've stated above.
Painting the MTL UP "Wooden Caboose" Model ( UP CA-Class Caboose) and Detail Comments:With the addition of painting the bright red curved end grab irons on its UP "wooden caboose" models, MTL has taken a good step towards a more correctly painted model of UP's CA-class wooden caboose.
Discovering that their model is of a CA-class UP caboose, rather than a Class CA-1 UP caboose would get us a correct number and class identification on the model.
@Nato Nate is entirely correct that MTL needs to paint the roof on their UP CA-class cabooses freight car red...not boxcar red, but a more reddish color. The color I prefer is "oxide red" from Scalecoat II since the paint quickly faded on the prototypes, and most color photos show it to be much more "red" than the sides of freight cars, and the smokestack should be black, certainly not yellow as it is now.
Photo (5) - UP Class CA-1 with baggage doors showing Synthetic Freight Car Red Paint roof in color:
The most recent MTL Armour Yellow renditions are relatively much closer to the correct prototype color and the earlier bright yellow releases. However, painting yellow over semi-translucent yellow plastic bodies makes for models that look translucent too, especially when looking through the generous cupola windows. This problem could be eliminated by casting the bodies in a slightly light medium green, then painting Armour Yellow over this. Interiors in UP cabooses was a medium dark green from the floor upward 4', then a light green upper wall and ceiling, but, the main point of "seeing green" in the MTL model is in the cupola, which would have been light medium green. Molding the body and cupola in a medium light green color would easily add an interior color as well as make the models more opaque.
Photo (6) - Interior Colors in UP Wooden Cabooses:
Prototypically the end platform steps were also painted Armour Yellow, with the wooden end platform and wooden step treads being painted "Maroon Paint" as opposed to everything being black as on the present MTL UP "wooden caboose" model.
I don't know if MTL will consider painting the end platforms, but it would greatly enhance the accuracy of the model. Maybe an extra-cost run of correctly painted models might prove whether UP modelers are willing to pay extra for a much better looking model.
Finally, many CA-class UP cabooses had prominent toolboxes on one side of the caboose bodies, and an excellent resin-cast rendition of this is available from Fine N-Scale Products along with interiors for two MTL cabooses.
UP Class CA-1 Options and Modeling Possibilities:Interestingly, there were 15 Class CA-1 cabooses built in the LA shops that had the CA-1 Bettendorf steel frames, but were built with the earlier CA-class bodies but with taller, straight-sided cupolas. Of course, these were painted in both the original freight car red scheme as well as the later Armour Yellow scheme.
I won't say much about them, but they would certainly be easy to "Foob" with the simple addition of straight-sided cupolas and correct numbers...or if MTL got REALLY ambitious, a taller cupola would render a near-perfect model of this Class CA-1 UP caboose variant, which were very prominent running in and out of Los Angeles before and during the steam-to-diesel transition era. They were LA&SL 4287-4291, 4292-4299, then renumbered around 1925 to 3356-3363, 3373-3375, and three more with only these LA&SL numbers 3373-3375.
If MTL were to produce a correct cupola for their CA-class "wooden caboose" body, MTL would be the first N-scale manufacturer to produce a nearly perfectly accurate model of a UP Class CA-3 caboose! Maybe this would also be impetus to produce "Q" trucks for this model and for the CA-class MTL models!
Photo (7) - UP CA-1 and a CA-1 with a CA-class body & tall straight cupola (#3351) at Sullivan's Curve pre-1948:
Photo ( 8 ) - UP Class CA-1 with CA-class body & tall, straight cupola (#3375) in Armour Yellow UP scheme:
That's about it, and maybe with this information MTL will give us a more accurately painted and detailed UP CA-class caboose to run on our UP trains, and maybe an industry-first Class CA-1 caboose too!
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
