N Scale Hi Rail - Retro Hollow Core Door Layout

[wm3798]

Cue the Marine Corps Band.  President Polk is in the house!  This arrived today in a box along with a pile of streamliners to round out my B&O fleet.

I'm thinking I need to start working on Camden Station, or Queen City... Maybe Grafton and the hotel!

Such wicked thoughts...

[Point353]

I'm thinking I need to start working on Camden Station, or Queen City... Maybe Grafton and the hotel!

Point of Rocks, perhaps?

[wm3798]

Having built my TTrak boxes for the challenge, the WM Cumberland Station has officially been moved off of the Retro Layout.

Also, the focus of the retro fleet building has become almost exclusively passenger equipment.  As such, I think it's time to re-think the track plan, so I present the following challenges to the assembled wizards of the Railwire for input and guidance...

Goals:  House several train consists of 4-7 passenger cars on the layout that can be swapped in and out to the main line loop without a lot of handling...

Provide for a "staging" track where a train can be held while another train runs the loop.

An inner loop (9.75" radius turn) that provides a little freight revenue for the railroad - This should provide for a run around track for those pesky facing point moves)  and perhaps a longer (6 or 8 car lengths) siding where freights can interchange, or a second freight can be staged.

Operations will be 100% DC cab control to keep with the retro theme, track is Atlas c80 snap track, with the occasional piece of flex to fill in a blank here and there.

Other considerations:
I have in my hot little hands a Postage Stamp Bus Track that I inherited from the DKS collection, which I'd like to somehow incorporate into the set up.  The bus and the track need a lot of fine tuning to run smoothly, but so does most of this other old stuff I've gathered...

Here is a very rough concept, just the concept of a union station to serve as the passenger hub and some general locations of what I have in mind.



The wide part is 36"x24", overall length is 84", and the narrow end is 24" x 48".  I'm imagining a city scape at the Union station end, and a coal spur and some industry tracks at the wide end.

Here's what I'm currently working with.


Bear in mind that the ethos of this layout is not hyper realism requiring sweeping curves and fine scale models, or any kind of realistic operations.  It's basically a Lionel layout where trains can loop around for the entertainment of the viewer, and then be swapped to a siding for another train and looped along some more.

Because of the tight curves, the passenger trains will always run counterclockwise on the outer loop, and the freight peddlers will always run clockwise on the inner track.  Crossovers can and will existing for either to reach a storage track, (backing maneuvers will be required to put the passenger trains away in the station tracks)  and freight sidings can be accessed as facing or trailing points, requiring a short run around track, for those times when the operator wishes to bump cars.

There will be no grades on the main tracks, but freight sidings, bus routes, and the trolley track (did I mention the desire for a trolley track?) can change elevations to whatever extent the equipment can bear.  I do plan to elevate the main tracks 2-2.5" to allow for up and down undulations in scenery.

What I've built thus far is completely in play, as it's really just tacked here and there to a piece of foam.  The new plan will be built on a more permanent foundation of cookie cutter plywood over a frame, which will hopefully stabilize it a bit more.

So there is my list of parameters to bring this project to some level of completion.  Looking forward to your thoughtful commentary.
Lee

[davefoxx]

The stub trackage in the passenger terminal screams Washington, D.C. to me.  Bus and trolley lines abound, too!

How do your trains like those mainline s-curves front and center on the layout?  Are you running mostly truck mounted couplers?

DFF

[DKS]

The stub trackage in the passenger terminal screams Washington, D.C. to me.

Actually, given the retro theme, I was thinking this would be more appropriate:

[wm3798]

I dig that train shed...  That would look extra sparkly once it got  a dose of LED lighting installed... I may have another situation you can help me with @David K. Smith , I'll PM you...

It does lend itself to a Union Station motif.  I'm thinking the loop track in front of the station would be below street level, so a terminal building with a concourse behind, with steps down to the platforms.  That would give me a spot for a bus and/or trolley at that end with some cityscape.  I've got scraps from one of those big old German stations to rework as a head house... once I sort the track plan, I'll figure out how much space it will need.

@davefoxx I was trying to figure out a way to do Broad Street in Richmond, with the loop actually being part of the station tracks, but it would just require way too much room to pull off, or make the necessary train length too short to make fun to watch.  I'd like to have a track for mail and express cars, but that might be too much like operations, although it would provide a place to park head end traffic and reduce the needed length of the platform tracks...  Hmmm..

So let's think about that for a second...
The train shed looks to accommodate 6 tracks.  I could make the platforms parallel to the main along the back wall, so the two mains run through, then stub the other four?  Oh, and another wrench in the design machine, since we're doing DC cab control, each track would have to be long enough for 4-5 cars plus its assigned power... I'll have to be able to isolate each track electrically to be able to operate one train while storing the others to keep the operation simple.  That translates to about 42". 

So that would give me the ability to stage four trains and run one, then add a shorter track just outside the shed to put 4 or 5 mail and express cars...  A crossover located prior to the station would allow the running train to arrive wrong rail on the freight track and pause while the next train is put together... pulling the appropriate mail car, adding it to the consist, and then pulling out onto the "right" main...  Then the arriving train can be switched into the platform without having to back through the S of the next crossover...  Does that make sense?

And yes, everything is good old truck mounted Rapidos, so they whip right on through that S, sending Pullman Porters flying in every direction and causing coffee cups to slop on the patrons of the dining cars.

[wm3798]

Also, I haven't built the 24" extension for the right end of the layout... I should probably plan to build it 26" to 28" deep to allow the inside main to be 11" r for that arrival situation described above.  I could also build in an inner siding of 9.75" under the city to provide a bypass/staging track for that second freight...  Let me doodle that out...

Lee

[DKS]

How about this for starters? Note that I designed it just prior to your above post, so it's probably already obsolete. But it gives you an idea how much space this amount of track takes up. Also, no bus/trolley--not sure if it could be shoe-horned in or not, maybe without the turntable...

[davefoxx]

It does lend itself to a Union Station motif.  I'm thinking the loop track in front of the station would be below street level, so a terminal building with a concourse behind, with steps down to the platforms.  That would give me a spot for a bus and/or trolley at that end with some cityscape.  I've got scraps from one of those big old German stations to rework as a head house... once I sort the track plan, I'll figure out how much space it will need.

I also thought of Washington D.C., because you're doing the B&O.

I was trying to figure out a way to do Broad Street in Richmond, with the loop actually being part of the station tracks, but it would just require way too much room to pull off, or make the necessary train length too short to make fun to watch.  I'd like to have a track for mail and express cars, but that might be too much like operations, although it would provide a place to park head end traffic and reduce the needed length of the platform tracks...  Hmmm..

I once tried to design a basement layout in the late 1990s that included Broad Street Station.  It quickly went out of control, but, of course, I was trying to include Acca and Bryan Park Terminal.  The layout of track in that area of Richmond was genius, but, man, it takes up a lot of space, and it is difficult to compress effectively on a layout.

So let's think about that for a second...
The train shed looks to accommodate 6 tracks.  I could make the platforms parallel to the main along the back wall, so the two mains run through, then stub the other four?  Oh, and another wrench in the design machine, since we're doing DC cab control, each track would have to be long enough for 4-5 cars plus its assigned power... I'll have to be able to isolate each track electrically to be able to operate one train while storing the others to keep the operation simple.  That translates to about 42". 

So that would give me the ability to stage four trains and run one, then add a shorter track just outside the shed to put 4 or 5 mail and express cars...  A crossover located prior to the station would allow the running train to arrive wrong rail on the freight track and pause while the next train is put together... pulling the appropriate mail car, adding it to the consist, and then pulling out onto the "right" main...  Then the arriving train can be switched into the platform without having to back through the S of the next crossover...  Does that make sense.

Sounds good to me.  The tracks parallel to the mainline with the station overhead would save a lot of space.  Think B&O's Mt. Royal Station in Baltimore, where you can use the tarnished and freight trains passed through.  Perfect!

DFF

[DKS]

Or...

[wm3798]

I like that second iteration, the engine shop allows the station tracks to be shorter, but adds the complexity of wiring "parking spots" for individual engines... the curse of cab control... Definitely don't want to consume acreage or budget on a roundhouse, so I'll have to chew on that a little.

I would like to have the thru tracks under the train shed, the more I think about it.  At this point, the photographer's curve at the back can be sacrificed to make the passenger terminal parallel to rear edge.  I like the new treatment of the front edge, though.  That will smooth out the run nicely, and add an opportunity for some scenic elements in front of the track.

Lee

[DKS]

Yeah, I figured the turntable wouldn't fly--I added it mostly for sh!ts and giggles. Here's another iteration with the station over the tracks.

[DKS]

...each track would have to be long enough for 4-5 cars plus its assigned power... I'll have to be able to isolate each track electrically to be able to operate one train while storing the others to keep the operation simple. That translates to about 42"....

 

Allrighty then... best I think that's practical is a range between 24 and 36 inches...

[wm3798]

I think we have a winner...  I will probably run the street grid at about 30 degrees to the track in a rhombus so the station head house is skewed above the platforms.  That might make it easier to work in a bus line above all the trackwork.
Also likely to work out a solution that doesn't involve a double slip.  I'm trying to use (more or less) vintage track, and those old ones are notoriously finicky, at least more finicky than I want to have on the back side of the table.

I like the direction this is taking.  Thanks, DKS!  I'm glad you had a minute!

Hair Guy.

[DKS]

Also likely to work out a solution that doesn't involve a double slip.  I'm trying to use (more or less) vintage track, and those old ones are notoriously finicky, at least more finicky than I want to have on the back side of the table.

Actually, since passenger trains only run the outer loop, it should be fine to simply replace the double-slip with a crossing.