Why Kato needs to do the Empire Builder and North Coast Limited...

[gkoproske]

Since Kato now has the full length dome, the Empire Builder shall be done in Big Sky Blue.

[NorsemanJack]

Since Kato now has the full length dome, the Empire Builder shall be done in Big Sky Blue.

It will never happen.  Empire Builder scheme?  Hopefully and perhaps likely.  Big Sky Blue?  Not a chance.  The only time GN fielded a complete Big Sky Blue "passenger" train was a publicity stunt/photo opportunity when they gathered up the right equipment for one of those executive specials.  Kato has developed a real healthy bias for marketing actual prototypical consists, and that's all I want to see released.

That said, I agree with you that the Big Sky Blue scheme was very attractive.  I think the GN Great Dome Lounges were from a different builder than those on the Hiawatha, however I have seen it suggested that Kato developed and utilized some innovative design approaches with the Hiawatha extended dome car, so hopefully at least that will help our chances for a future EB release.

[High Hood]

It will never happen.  Empire Builder scheme?  Hopefully and perhaps likely.  Big Sky Blue?  Not a chance.  The only time GN fielded a complete Big Sky Blue "passenger" train was a publicity stunt/photo opportunity when they gathered up the right equipment for one of those executive specials.  Kato has developed a real healthy bias for marketing actual prototypical consists, and that's all I want to see released

Maybe Kato could do some 4 packs of BSB cars? Not too familiar with GN trains, but maybe they could do something like they did with the Amtrak and Penn Central sets for a combined mixed scheme train?

[NorsemanJack]

Maybe Kato could do some 4 packs of BSG cars? Not too familiar with GN trains, but maybe they could do something like they did with the Amtrak and Penn Central sets for a combined mixed scheme train?

That would actually be very nice!  Maybe after they release a prototype Empire Builder in the original scheme.

I sometimes wish I had bought those Kato Amtrak/Penn Central mixed sets.  They were a very nice, unique offering.  Oh well, maybe they will show up on Nscaleyardsale one of these days.

[Nato]

                            Yes the GN Great Dome Lounge cars were built by Budd and were like Santa Fe Big Dome cars , but with semi smooth sides, the Hiawatha domes were the first full length domes built and were built by Pullman Standard with smooth sides, no platform loading doors at one end and a less innovative interior arrangement in the dome. "Big Sky Blue" would be nice but Orange and Green EB should be released first.          Nate Goodman (Nato). 

[nkalanaga]

I suspect that, if Kato ever does the Empire Builder, they will eventually run it in BSB.  As far as I know, at least one of every car type was painted BSB, and some actually got GN lettering on experimental BN Green schemes.  Anyone modeling 1967 or later needs the BSB, it would give them another scheme to make more money from tooling, and modelers can mix-and-match the two as needed.

But I will agree, the green and orange should be done first, as that's the one that will probably sell best.  The only thing against it is that Kato already did an "Empire Builder", with the UP(?) cars, so it would be a "duplicate", even if the first was unprototypical.  That might make a difference to their marketing folks.

For many of the cars BN Green would be prototypical, as the BN did repaint some before Amtrak, including the CB&Q's Great Dome Lounge.  And, of course, many of them ended up in Amtrak Phase I paint.  That's 4 or more prototypical schemes for the same cars, depending on how one counts the experimental one-off schemes.  And all of the schemes could be seen in the same train in the early years of Amtrak.

[NorsemanJack]

Very nice.  Two follow on posts, and each poster correctly referenced the "Great Dome Lounge."  As you guys likely know, all GN dome cars were called "Great Domes," but only the extended dome was referred to as the "Great Dome Lounge."  Excellent job Gentlemen!! 

That said; I'll buy anything Kato releases in terms of prototypical Empire Builder equipment. 

[CBQ Fan]

They did the COLA after many various runs of UP cars before it came out, oh and they changed the yellow as well.

[Mark5]

FWIW and if I remember correctly, the Milwaukee full domes were Pullman made, while the GN cars were made by Budd.

Mark

[nkalanaga]

Mark:  Right.  The Milwaukee cars are entirely different.  The AT&SF full domes were almost identical to the GN cars, but in fluted stainless steel.  It's fairly easy to kitbash a GN version from the Bachmann AT&SF car, either with styrene or the Brass Car Sides sides.  I've done both, and think the styrene route is slightly easier.

If Kato did a Budd full dome, it would be simple to do both versions, with only the sides and interior changed.  Even if they did only that car, several are still running, in various schemes, so they'd have a lot of roadname/color options.

The GN and NP also used Budd dome-coaches, very similar to the AT&SF/CB&Q cars, except, again, with "smooth" sides.  The roof, dome, and ends of the existing models could be reused to model them as well.  Then we could replace the thousands of ConCor/Kato domes still in service from the late 60s and 70s.

[Ike the BN Freak]

What, then did this statement of yours mean; " Also speaking to Lowell Smith, his new line RailSmith is planning on doing both of those trains are part of their initial releases"?

That those are two of the trains he initially plans to do. However if you look at his site, he explains how he plans on doing it. I doubt anyone but Kato will release entire train sets at one shot.  Plus his is a one man operation, I doubt he has the funds to fully tool a full train before releasing anything else.

Personally I'd rather see Kato do the train sets, as Kato will tool up correct cars, RailSmith's plans have some cars as prototype, while others will be close enough.

[gkoproske]

It will never happen.  Empire Builder scheme?  Hopefully and perhaps likely.  Big Sky Blue?  Not a chance.  The only time GN fielded a complete Big Sky Blue "passenger" train was a publicity stunt/photo opportunity when they gathered up the right equipment for one of those executive specials.  Kato has developed a real healthy bias for marketing actual prototypical consists, and that's all I want to see released.

Ah, but I rode it as a teen.  Big Sky Blue from Chicago to Seattle.  Didn't know why they called it that till we had a station stop at Havre.  I got out and looked up, and was amazed that yes, they do have a big sky out here.

As for Kato, we've already seen the Pullman Green and Omaha Orange train.  If Kato led off their passenger car production with the BN Green hockey stick cars, then their doing Big Sky Blue cannot be out of the question.  It still bothers me about those hockey stick cars.

[CBQ Fan]

I highly doubt anything that Lowell Smith does would impact anything Kato decides to do. 

[mplsjct]

Kato likely will do the Empire Builder eventually, hopefully they will be able to get the stripes between the colors finer than they did on the cars from 2005. I also think they eventually do the big sky blue scheme, perhaps as a four car set like the PC cars.

I have heard over the years how people are partial to the orange and green scheme, but I suspect big sky blue will sell quite well, too.

[Englewood]

Big Sky Blue is my favorite passenger paint scheme. Otherwise I have almost zero interest in GN. I would buy a BSB passenger train from Kato, a green and orange one would be a possible buy. Anything east of the Mississippi has a zero chance with me, except for a Kato Acela.