Lowering IM F7 shells

[Bill H]

Group:
Back on the A board there was a very good thread on lowering IM F7 shells. With A board gone, can anyone remember or summarize the best solution?

TIA,
Bill

[dmidkiff]

I'd be interested in this info as well.  There was also a thread on Trainboard but the pictures and links don't work for me.

Doug

[davefoxx]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe that "The S." had a method to lower the IM F-unit shells.  Paging, @sizemore.

DFF

[sizemore]

Digging deep in the record bins (literally 10 years ago!):

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-i.2033/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-ii.2037/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-iii.2038/

Hopefully this helps, pictures speak more than words. Questions post them here!

The S.

[randgust]

To me, there's a gap there that Kato doesn't have, but when the shell is lowered it looks almost 'too low'.

So there's one sure way to settle the argument.    Here's the PRR equipment diagram with measurement for an F7A.  14' 0 1/2" to the top of the roof from railhead.....
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=ef-4-a_after1950.gif&sel=die&sz=sm&fr=

What does it measure now?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

So it's all plastic adjustments and not messing with the metal frame?

I wonder if something similar befalls the SD40-2s. I've been nervous to attack them but they do kinda need it.

[coosvalley]

So it's all plastic adjustments and not messing with the metal frame?

Yup, no messing with a metal frame!..I did one, without using any guidance(didn't know about above posts), and still found it pretty easy to do. If IM took the time to correct this with their upcoming sound equipped units, they will have a home run, IMHO...BLI blew it when they squished the grilles and windshield area, to me anyway.

Anywho, a shot of mine, I eventually got the windows seated properly , before I sold it.

Good luck with the SD40-2s, I hope it can be done!

[Mike Madonna]

Digging deep in the record bins (literally 10 years ago!):

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-i.2033/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-ii.2037/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-iii.2038/

Hopefully this helps, pictures speak more than words. Questions post them here!

The S.

Thank you sir! I've got a few "Black Widows" that need attention....

[unittrain]

To me, there's a gap there that Kato doesn't have, but when the shell is lowered it looks almost 'too low'.

So there's one sure way to settle the argument.    Here's the PRR equipment diagram with measurement for an F7A.  14' 0 1/2" to the top of the roof from railhead.....
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=ef-4-a_after1950.gif&sel=die&sz=sm&fr=

What does it measure now?

I measured my intermountain F7A and it was 1 and 1/16" to the top of the hood and 1 and 3/32 to the top of the fans so that about right on according to the drawing,  I have a later release the B&O capital done scheme from I believe the last release maybe they changed something?

[randgust]

1 1/16 works out to 14' 2".    I'll admit it looks better lowered but the overall body height still was OK, so they scrunched something somewhere to come up with that gap.   I don't mix IM and Kato,  but mine is usually paired with an Atlas SD24 and the comparative hood height is right on.   I really wrestled with lowering mine and now you have me thinking about it again, but I'm still puzzled enough to want to measure the whole thing over and figure out what they did.

[sizemore]

For lowering the shell its all plastic work, no frame modifications needed. No need to worry about decoders either (I run Digitrax).

I want to say that I've read somewhere long ago in a forum post far far away that the Kato Bulldogs were a tad "large". I had roughly ten F-7's to detail and repaint into "WM" and when the IM's came out it was an easy decision to cut out half the work (paint, handrails etc), leaving only uncoupler levers, grills (FARR), grabs and horns to install.

Glad to help!
The S.

[SP-Wolf]

Adding my two penny's worth.

I modified these in April of 2016:
I removed material from the body just above the coupler box. (Can't remember where I got the idea)






Thanks,
Wolf

[mark.hinds]

IMHO, if one is going to do this, one may as well do it carefully.  So, (1) you need to know the correct prototype height, and (2) you need to be able to carefully measure the model height. 

Prototype height from the railhead to the curved roof of the car body is ½ inch over 14’ (so essentially 14’), per plans such as these:  http://www.nprha.org/Diesel%20Diagrams/Forms/Thumbnails.aspx#InplviewHash765015e9-c63e-4284-b03c-fc91800bb2bd=Paged%3DTRUE-p_SortBehavior%3D0-p_FileLeafRef%3DEMD%2520F%252d3%2520Freight%25206000B%252d6005C%2520Mx%252045%252ejpg-p_ID%3D76-PageFirstRow%3D31 .  There are also larger-scale plans such as those in the MR Locomotive Cyclopedia.

Actual model height is best measured with a jig, such as this one.  The jig works better because the railhead is not in line with the center of the car body, so a hand-held scale ruler will be error prone.  The Intermountain F-series models, unmodified, are about 15’ to the top of the car body, or 1’ too high.  The Kato F-series models are the correct 14’. 

 

WRT to how easy it is to lower the IM bodies, I’ve done it to at least 4 of them so far, and although it’s quite do-able, I wouldn’t call it easy.  Per the quoted links in Reply #3 above (to another Forum), you have to carefully carve away the end of the car body at each end to clear the frame-mounted coupler boxes, which is a fiddly task if you want to be precise; on my mod, these 2 points determine the final shell height, once the mold points are removed from the inside of the roof, and the A-unit's cab green detail part is cut down.  Again, per the quoted links, you then have to compensate for the lowered body locking tabs (I left them off and rely on gravity).  Finally, if you want the best-looking result, you have to lower the fuel tank to match the lowered body.  I cut off the fuel tank locking loops at the top, added a spacer under the tank, and fastened the whole thing with a single screw in a drilled and tapped hole just off the center line on one of the 2 frame halves (the links in Reply #3 above do this with tape, but this will fall off eventually). 

Also note that F-unit spacing is 3 feet, per my oft-posted image with the raccoon.  (Note the 18" dimension to the coupler face, from the first link in my post; 18" x 2 = 36" = 3 feet).





MH

[atsf3751]

I will tell you how I lower Intermountain F units and it is a very simple surgery on the shell which is not visible when the engine is pulling a train. On the B units look at the ends and you will see a lot of plastic under the doors. Remove the shell and snip that away so that the door can sit on the coupler, that is all you have to do to lower the shell and that lowers the shell almost a scale foot. What you must watch out for is that the shell no longer locks to the chassis, so don't pick the engine up by the shell alone or the chassis may fall out.


For the A, do the same at the rear and remove the simulated cab, that is what is holding the front up. You will also have to enlarge the opening in the pilot by cutting into the pilot a little so the coupler can sit higher in the opening. The space between the bodies should be 30" and I do that by replacing the coupler with a drawbar, not a problem for me because my F units always run ABBA. I fill the gap between the engines with American Limited diaphragms, I usually only need one and that is not visible when the engines are running but what you can see is the air gap is gone.

[Bill H]

Digging deep in the record bins (literally 10 years ago!):

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-i.2033/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-ii.2037/
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/albums/im-f-7-project-pt-iii.2038/

Hopefully this helps, pictures speak more than words. Questions post them here!

The S.

Sizemore;
Many thanks for this, it is a big help. Sorry for the very late response, I had to go overseas on zero notice for the week and just got home.

Kind regards,
Bill