Combatting track oxidation in humid atmospheres

[Steveruger45]

Hi Guys,
Background.  On a different thread some of us got into a discussion on so called conductive lubricants.  In particular “No Ox Id A Special”.  I have used this stuff years ago in the merchant marine to combat corrosion on electrical switchgear, antenna couplers and such.  Well, I thought I would get a new tub and try this on my layout track to see if it would help reduce or illiminate the constant battle I have with oxide developing on my track and all the problems that caused with good conductivity and the too routine procedure of abrasive cleaning.
I should mention I live in south east Texas and my layout is in a garage.

Now, after a couple of months I can report as follows:
First, I cleaned the track.
I then applied the No Ox Id A Special, sparingly wiping it on the track with my finger, and let it sit two days so it could do its thing. It is supposed to develop some sort of oxide inhibiting layer.
I then lightly wiped it off and ran a loco around the layout going over all the track to be sure it was all spread out.
Yes, I did have to clean the loco wheels after this.
Checked the track again and wiped up any odd globs.

The result has been successful. I have not had to abrasively clean my track at all in the last couple of months. The problem I had with oxide layer developing has gone.  I now Just have to give the track a quick once over with a liquid wipe using rubbing alcohol and a pad to remove grime and dust occasionally.

In short,  all my locos run beautifully and I am happy with the result.
The photos below show the product, the track after wiping on letting sit and wiping off and a very non scientific and mostly useless check on this stuffs conductivity
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[peteski]

I'm unclear on the conductivity measurements. From what I can see in the photos, you have the meter in the 200 ohm range.  The second photo shows the probes in the grease and no conductivity. But the 1st photo shows 1.6 ohms.  What exactly are the grease-coated probes measuring?  Are the metal probes touching each other and 1.6 is the "shorted" resistance, or are the metal probes separated slightly and they are measuring the resistance of a thin layer of grease?

[Chris333]

I used some of that on my N door layout. Haven't ran trains in a while, but last time I had no problems.

[peteski]

I used some of that on my N door layout. Haven't ran trains in a while, but last time I had no problems.

To me the elephant in the room is the electric conductivity (since many claim that it is electrically conductive). The catalog cover states that it is for maintenance of steel. If you look at the lower left corner the slogan is "The Original Rust Preventative".  It indicates that it protects steel from rusting (most greasy substances create a barrier protecting steel from oxygen and water). Many substances will do that. Like WD-40, 3-in-1 oil, transmission fluid, Wahl Clipper Oil, etc., etc.  Any oily substance model railroaders use for increasing track's contact reliability. But nowhere is any mention of electrical conductivity. However that catalog seems to be for No-OX-Id, not for the No-OX-Id "A Special" which is supposedly conductive.

[Chris333]

What I used is the same as the photo "A special".

I used an old T-shirt and lightly put some on with a finger tip. Rubbed off any extra. I didn't know it was supposed to be conductive.

[Steveruger45]

I wondered if you would respond on the conductivity thing again Pete.   I just threw that in especially for you.
Yes, with the meter set on 200 ohms, I had infinite resistance with the two leads in the pot and a 1.6 ohm resistance when I touched the leads together fully gooped with the stuff from the pot. The leads were touching each other but I just placed them together with no force or rubbing action at all. I know, It basically proves nothing and as I said a non scientific and mostly useless test.
 Anyhow, I am pleased it is doing what I hoped it would after two months now. I don’t have any loco power pickup issues or traction issues either.
We have several months coming  with the usual very very high humidity on its way. So that will be the real litmus test for me, if it can continue to perform and if or when it starts to not perform and maybe need a fresh application.

[peteski]

I wondered if you would respond on the conductivity thing again Pete.   I just threw that in especially for you.
Yes, with the meter set on 200 ohms, I had infinite resistance with the two leads in the pot and a 1.6 ohm resistance when I touched the leads together fully gooped with the stuff from the pot. The leads were touching each other but I just placed them together with no force or rubbing action at all. I know, It basically proves nothing and as I said a non scientific and mostly useless test.
 Anyhow, I am pleased it is doing what I hoped it would after two months now. I don’t have any loco power pickup issues or traction issues either.
We have several months coming  with the usual very very high humidity on its way. So that will be the real litmus test for me, if it can continue to perform and if or when it starts to not perform and maybe need a fresh application.

Thanks Steve. So it seems that there was a metal-to-metal contact.  It would have been enlightening if you put the probes in contact with each other when dry (before doing the same after they were coated).

I also suspect that any of the other oily or greasy "miracle" rail protectants (which I mentioned in my last thread) would probably do just as well as the No-OX-Id stuff.  But if it works for you . . .
I also wonder how much any of those oily substances decreases adhesion (of one runs long heavy trains up hill), and how it affects traction tires (if those are used of course).

[Point353]

But nowhere is any mention of electrical conductivity.

This product is claimed to be conductive:



http://www.bottlesbyphoenix.com/excelle-lubricants.html

[peteski]

Electrical conductivity of a clear lubricant without some sort of graphite or metallic (silver, copper, nickel, etc.) particles in it seems doubtful. If it really is conductive (as in low ohm range useful to conduct the current needed to power a model locomotive without a large voltage drop) then I wish they would explain how exactly this lubricant conducts electricity. Call me a skeptic.

[John]

There is always this:

CRC 2-26 is a versatile, plastic safe, multi-purpose precision lubricant, penetrant and corrosion inhibitor. Its unique viscosity allows it to cover more surface area and penetrate deep into the surface of all metals, including steel, copper, brass and aluminum alloys. 2-26 displaces moisture and leaves a thin, long lasting film to protect against corrosion. Recommended for use on electrical connectors, relays, circuit breakers, transformers, switchgear, motors, generators, controls, instruments, communication assemblies, electronics, alarm systems, starters, tubing, castings, gears, weld rod, wire, fixtures, dies, jigs, shim stock, chucks, drill rod, heat treated parts, machined surfaces, finished welds, aluminum extrusions, air actuated tools, conveyors, frozen joints, locks, hoists, etc. Excellent for use around modern plastics and insulators. Recommended for restoring electrical properties to water or flood damaged equipment.

[reinhardtjh]

I've used CRC 2-26 on Kato Unitrack that was stored in a garage for a while.  The #4 and #6 swtiches didn't divert power like they were supposed to and a shot of CRC into them helped. 

[Steveruger45]

Hey, Pete, you Must know I always value your opinions and I really do admire your electrical/electronic skills/ expertise, which to me at least you have proved over and over again in this forum.  Thanks for all that too.
So, you have really peaked my interest on this and it has given me an idea.
 I was thinking of wiring up an old automotive light bulb that I think I still have to a couple of bits of wire and connecting it to a 12vdc source such that one wire (positive or negative shouldn’t matter) would be cut in the middle and the cut ends placed into the pot of NoOxId such that this pot would form part of the circuit on one leg.
Then I could see if the bulb lights.

I think this approach might satisfy both our curiosities.  What do you think?

[Steveruger45]

Well I just thought I would go ahead and test this stuff as earlier described anyway.  My curiosity was getting the better of me.
So, I wired up to an old dc power pack on the variable dc side and supplied 19.6v.  With the wires connected directly to the bulb it lighted up.
With one leg split and dipped in the NoOxId A special pot about 25mm apart there was no light. So it is not conductive in itself over this distance.
I then moved the wires in the pot closer together as much as I could without touching the wires and still separated by the NoOxId and still no light. So it is not conductive in itself over a very short distance. Best guess about 2mm apart.
I then rested the gooped up and fully coated wires together and got light.
So I guess the conclusion to be drawn from this is that it allows conductivity on two touching conductors gooped up in this stuff. 
so There it is and some photos to boot.
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[DKS]

A buddy of mine and I have tested at least a half-dozen of these so-called "conductive" products over the last few decades. None of them--zero, zip, nada--were the slightest bit conductive. They may ******** the formation of substances that inhibit conductivity, but they are not themselves inherently conductive. We therefore place any such claims in the category of snake oil.

[Steveruger45]

Yep, that’s pretty much the conclusion from my experiment I guess. Still, if it solves my oxidation issue that’s all I care about.