Another Kato poll.....

[CBQ Fan]

Unfortunately, I think that's it for 2018.  I really don't like the way this Kato poll was set up.  It splits the Hill Lines votes three ways (Twin Cities Zephyr, NCL and EB) and almost assures that the 20th Century Limited will "win."  If they had left out any two of the three Hill Lines trains, I believe that there would be essentially a tie at this point between the 20th Century and whichever of those three they kept.

I would agree!

[peteski]

I really don't like the way this Kato poll was set up.  It splits the Hill Lines votes three ways (Twin Cities Zephyr, NCL and EB) and almost assures that the 20th Century Limited will "win."  If they had left out any two of the three Hill Lines trains, I believe that there would be essentially a tie at this point between the 20th Century and whichever of those three they kept.

I suspect that there is a reason they set it up this way (and not just randomly included those choices).  As I see it, they are up to something (even if the poll appears flawed).

[NorsemanJack]

I suspect that there is a reason they set it up this way (and not just randomly included those choices).  As I see it, they are up to something (even if the poll appears flawed).

On the plus side, I'm delighted that this poll seems to acknowledge that TCZ, EB and NCL are all on their radar.  I agree that it is likely not "random," but it risks sending a wrong message to model railroaders (i.e. that the poll "winner" might be chosen as the next release).  The TCZ, EB, NCL and 20th Century Limited are all fairly obvious options for a "named train" poll.  The Rocket and Lark are not, and their inclusion suggests that Kato may be trying to justify their eventual release.  The 400 is somewhere in the middle.  The 400 option is somewhat vague, because we have no idea which version would be offered.  It could be steam, E3, E6, E7 or E8 powered.  We can likely assume that the NCL is the Loewy version and the EB is the one with the Great Dome Lounge.  They specified "dome" TCZ and post 1941 Lark and 50s TCL.

We can probably assume that they mean the "Twin Cities 400," although they might be referring to another train altogether.  if they told me that the 400 would be E3 or E6 powered, I would be much more excited about it than if it is a much later E8 powered consist.

[sirenwerks]

Having VPN helps get votes in too. Of course, it's not helping. I can't believe the EB is losing to a puny Rocket.    Still, I wonder if Kato would be bribed to release SDP40 with the EB?

[NorsemanJack]

Having VPN helps get votes in too. Of course, it's not helping. I can't believe the EB is losing to a puny Rocket.    Still, I wonder if Kato would be bribed to release SDP40 with the EB?

That's not the EB we're talking about here (I'm sure you know that).  We're talking four Great Domes (one being the Great Dome Lounge) and the rest of that consist until they dropped the observation.  I'm showing the EB holding a slight 1% lead over the Rocket, but I certainly agree with you on this one.  The EB was a massive flagship investment in top of the line cross continent luxury travel by the most successful Railroad of that era (i.e. the only one that never went bankrupt).  The Rocket had this goofy little E unit wannabe loco that made an FT unit look "good" (with great apologies to the Rocket fans, but if Kato is reading I want them to see the full range of opinions).

[wcfn100]

The Rocket had this goofy little E unit wannabe loco that made an FT unit look "good" (with great apologies to the Rocket fans, but if Kato is reading I want them to see the full range of opinions).

But doing the Rocket could allow for 5 different named trains for price of one NCL or EB.

Jason

[nickelplate759]

...but I'd buy one EB and one NCL before I bought 2 Rockets -- unless they did the Golden Rocket (which never ran, but...).

[NorsemanJack]

But doing the Rocket could allow for 5 different named trains for price of one NCL or EB.

Jason

Yep.  But......  Who on earth would want five of those things??   

[NorsemanJack]

...but I'd buy one EB and one NCL before I bought 2 Rockets -- unless they did the Golden Rocket (which never ran, but...).

Most of us would.  Hopefully Kato realizes this and moves beyond some of this foolishness.

The Silver Streak Zephyr was great.  The cars were 100% recycled tooling, and the tooling for the E5 set the stage for a fantastic TCZ release.  They just need to play the scene....

[wcfn100]

Yep.  But......  Who on earth would want five of those things??   

Hopefully we'll find out! 

My concern with the EB and NCL is that I don't think Kato has included more than 12 cars in a named train to date.  Are people going to be okay if that happens with either of these trains when they should be about 16 cars?

Jason

[peteski]

On the plus side, I'm delighted that this poll seems to acknowledge that TCZ, EB and NCL are all on their radar.  I agree that it is likely not "random," but it risks sending a wrong message to model railroaders (i.e. that the poll "winner" might be chosen as the next release).  The TCZ, EB, NCL and 20th Century Limited are all fairly obvious options for a "named train" poll.  The Rocket and Lark are not, and their inclusion suggests that Kato may be trying to justify their eventual release.  The 400 is somewhere in the middle.  The 400 option is somewhat vague, because we have no idea which version would be offered.  It could be steam, E3, E6, E7 or E8 powered.  We can likely assume that the NCL is the Loewy version and the EB is the one with the Great Dome Lounge.  They specified "dome" TCZ and post 1941 Lark and 50s TCL.

We can probably assume that they mean the "Twin Cities 400," although they might be referring to another train altogether.  if they told me that the 400 would be E3 or E6 powered, I would be much more excited about it than if it is a much later E8 powered consist.

Maybe someone from Kato ( @nightmare0331 ) who was likely one of the people who chose the models for this poll could shed some light as to why these particular trains were picked. But I also have my doubts that he will be able to give us any inside info.

[nightmare0331]

Maybe someone from Kato ( @nightmare0331 ) who was likely one of the people who chose the models for this poll could shed some light as to why these particular trains were picked. But I also have my doubts that he will be able to give us any inside info.

 


I have no real dog in this fight because I'm an HO scale modeler (or...used to be, when I actually had time to build models). 

There's far more in the works then one or two of those options, but some of it is quite a bit out there time-wise.  (not saying that everything on that list is all inclusive, or just because the R&D work is completed in at least 2 cases it will ever see the light of day)

People get bent out of shape for some reason with reruns not realizing that designing and tooling an entire train (let alone individual car/components) costs significant time and money, which needs to be spread across several runs of cars.  The COLA sold out in short time (same with the UP excursion train) so of course that was a logical progression of reruns.  (besides, for as much as some people don't want to hear it and think otherwise, UP sells).

Whatever comes out, it will be slick.  Some people will be really happy and conversely I'll hear the usual gripe of 'they're leaving money on the table!' or 'my wallet is safe!  harumph'

Then the cycle will repeat all over again.

Anywhoo...enough rambling...sound equipped locos don't build themselves.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[Bobster]

Good afternoon,

If I may add a correction or two.  Two of the TA's pulled four car trains.  Peoria Rocket being one of the 4 car sets.  The rest were 3 cars. There were slight interior differences between the three car sets and 4 car sets.

The Golden Rocket never ran....correct.  Most if not all the cars for the Golden Rocket's  Rock Island part of the train were built and incorporated into the Golden State.  SP didn't follow with their cars.   Neither upgraded their tracks for improved time to compete with the Santa Fe.

Sorry I'm away from my references and can't clarify beyond this.
Bobster

[Point353]

My concern with the EB and NCL is that I don't think Kato has included more than 12 cars in a named train to date.  Are people going to be okay if that happens with either of these trains when they should be about 16 cars?

Kato produced the Broadway Limited train as a 10-car basic set plus a 4-car add-on set (along with a single Santa Fe sleeper), so that sort of packaging arrangement could be replicated in the future.

A typical 20th Century Limited consist would have had more than 12 cars, as well.

[thomasjmdavis]

What I think this is telling Kato, and the actual purpose of the poll, is that going ahead with a 50s era 20th Century has a lot of potential.  In the previous poll, my recollection is that the late 30s Hudson powered version won by a fair margin (correct?).  So, the question this poll actually answers for them is "compared to other trains we could bring out in xxxx timeframe, how popular would a 50s era 20th Century be?"  The answer appears to be, pretty darn popular.

My thinking would be, given the earlier poll, that if a 50s 20th Century sells well, a Dreyfuss Hudson with a set of earlier cars will go on the list of things to do at Kato, given the evidence from the earlier poll.

Whatever else, as of last I looked yesterday, there were something like 4500 responses to the poll, which has to make Kato feel pretty confident that there PR is effective, and makes me think there are more N scale passenger train modelers/collectors out there than I thought there were.  Even allowing for double votes and such- still a substantial response.

On the "why a Rocket" type questions- what I think Kato recognizes, from their own sales history, is that some folks buy smaller trains because they have smaller layouts.  Think of all of those issues of MR that featured "Pike sized passenger trains."  For those modelers, a Silver Streak or a Rocket (or the Con Cor Pioneer Zephyr or M10000) can be ideal- prototypical consist of a "Premier" train streamliner that has 3 to 5 cars.

My concern with the EB and NCL is that I don't think Kato has included more than 12 cars in a named train to date.  Are people going to be okay if that happens with either of these trains when they should be about 16 cars?

Jason

I imagine its just a matter of packaging.  What they did with several of the earlier trains was to package 8 or 10 cars together and then had "add on" packs of 2 or 4 so you could expand as desired.