Help with ECO-100

[reinhardtjh]

The PR3 is well known to often need a bit more juice than the PS14 can supply.   On the Digitrax Yahoo mail list people regularly replace it with regulated wall wars of 1A and voltages from 16v to 20v.  I bought a regulated 18v 1A on Ebay for under $10 which made a big difference in reliability.  Although it still couldn't program my BLI PRR M1a/b Paragon 2 decoders.  I bought a SPROG for them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Generic-18V-0-8A-1A-800mA-1000mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Charger-Power-Supply-PSU-5-5-2-5/250966420357?hash=item3a6ec3ab85:g:NrsAAOSw32lYwMZp

[nstars]

Just a question, is Decoder Pro set to Direct Programming? I'm not sure if this is the case with the Eco-100, but some newer decoders don't work anymore with Paged programming.

Concerning Programming on the main, this is helpful in many situations, but as mentioned before you can't read the CV's in that mode. And you can't program CV 3 and 29 in that mode. For that reason it's recommended to first read the decoder on the programming track which brings us back to the topic.

Marc

[SP-Wolf]

Things really should not be this complicated Wolf.  N scale sound decoders (when running) will use less than 1A of current (probably closer to 0.5A).  In programming  mode, that will be even less.  If your power supply dedicated to programming can supply 0.5A or more, that should be plenty. Well, the PR3 itself needs some power to, so let's say 1A power supply should be more than adequate.

OPS mode programming is not optimal. You doing it blindly since there is no read-back capability. So troubleshooting is difficult.  Also one of the perks of DecoderPro is that it keeps a record of all the CVs in all of the decoders you own. So when a decoder "blows its brains" (which I can guarantee will happen at some point), you can easily restore all of its CVs from the DecoderPro roster.   But you know that.

I guess if the ECO-100 is the only decoder that is incompatible with your PR3 and DecoderPro, then it is not such a big deal. OPS programming will likely work.   If I do OPS mode programming I remove all the other locos on the track - just being very cautious.

You are correct --- it shouldn't be complicated. However, when one doesn't understand all that is involved -- it does get complicated. As for programming on my program track -- it was indeed the Powerpax. I removed it from the loop -- and I was able to use "paged mode" programming (Service mode) - I wrote and read CV's. I also tried and was successful programming in "OPS" mode. (I left all the other locomotives on the rails) --- absolutely no issues. As it should be.

Here is what George at Soundtraxx told me about the Powerpax:
"Yes, remove the Pax..  This is the issue.  The pax, is looking for an acknowledgement ‘pulse’ higher than the NMRA recommends, so when you put the Econami or Tsunami2 on it, these follow NMRA specs and do not need a booster, so the pax doesn’t transmit the acknowledgement to the DCC system.  If you are not reading a CV, the pax is fine, since it simply passes the info through." 

And, of course he is 100% correct. All of my programming issues using my DCS200/DT500 are gone.

Next is to work on my JMRI Decoderpro issue. I will try a larger power supply.

So -- bottom line: I am good to go. Problem solved.

Thanks, Peteski, for all of your input!!

And -- thanks to all Y'all for assisting me!!   

Wolf

[SP-Wolf]

The PR3 is well known to often need a bit more juice than the PS14 can supply.   On the Digitrax Yahoo mail list people regularly replace it with regulated wall wars of 1A and voltages from 16v to 20v.  I bought a regulated 18v 1A on Ebay for under $10 which made a big difference in reliability.  Although it still couldn't program my BLI PRR M1a/b Paragon 2 decoders.  I bought a SPROG for them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Generic-18V-0-8A-1A-800mA-1000mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Charger-Power-Supply-PSU-5-5-2-5/250966420357?hash=item3a6ec3ab85:g:NrsAAOSw32lYwMZp

This is great -- thank you, for the heads-up!!
I will pick one up.  -- Question: will the plug work with the PR3 -- or will I need to switch it out with the one from the PS14 - ?

Thanks again,
Wolf

[reinhardtjh]

This is great -- thank you, for the heads-up!!
I will pick one up.  -- Question: will the plug work with the PR3 -- or will I need to switch it out with the one from the PS14 - ?

Thanks again,
Wolf

No wiring necessary. It plugs right in. it's a standard 2.1mm plug.  Correct polarity and everything.

[Lemosteam]

The PR3 is well known to often need a bit more juice than the PS14 can supply.   On the Digitrax Yahoo mail list people regularly replace it with regulated wall wars of 1A and voltages from 16v to 20v.  I bought a regulated 18v 1A on Ebay for under $10 which made a big difference in reliability.  Although it still couldn't program my BLI PRR M1a/b Paragon 2 decoders.  I bought a SPROG for them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Generic-18V-0-8A-1A-800mA-1000mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Charger-Power-Supply-PSU-5-5-2-5/250966420357?hash=item3a6ec3ab85:g:NrsAAOSw32lYwMZp

@reinhardtjh OK, WTH is a SPROG??

[reinhardtjh]

@reinhardtjh OK, WTH is a SPROG??

John,

  http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

It's basically a computer controlled DCC interface.  It has a serial-USB port on one end and a DCC track output on the other.  You can use it with JMRI to program decoders or, if you get a SPROG 2 or 3, make a small DCC command station.  If you're talented enough you can write your own software to output NMRA DCC commands to the track outputs.  There is a new version that connects ( or optionally comes with ) a Raspberry PI to make a compact JMRI station or a DCC Command station with custom software that you write.

I bought a SPROG 3, but only because the shop was out of SPROG 2's and I was impatient.  The SPROG 2/3 programs a BLI Paragon 2 with no problems, unlike my PR3.

[peteski]

Good job Wolf!  Problem solved, and the solution was logical and understood. (not just an unexplained fix).

While OPS programing "should" be safe, I don't trust it.  If for some reason the PS programming command ended up sent to address "0", all the locos on the track would accept it (as it is a broadcast address). At least, that is how I understand OPS programming.

[John]

The PR3 is well known to often need a bit more juice than the PS14 can supply.   On the Digitrax Yahoo mail list people regularly replace it with regulated wall wars of 1A and voltages from 16v to 20v.  I bought a regulated 18v 1A on Ebay for under $10 which made a big difference in reliability.  Although it still couldn't program my BLI PRR M1a/b Paragon 2 decoders.  I bought a SPROG for them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Generic-18V-0-8A-1A-800mA-1000mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Charger-Power-Supply-PSU-5-5-2-5/250966420357?hash=item3a6ec3ab85:g:NrsAAOSw32lYwMZp

John . I did the same .. got a bigger wall wart .. I've had no trouble programming my BLI AC6000 .. I think it has the same decoder .. but I had to do it in one of the other modes .. and make sure the wheels are real clean

[SP-Wolf]

Good job Wolf!  Problem solved, and the solution was logical and understood. (not just an unexplained fix).

While OPS programing "should" be safe, I don't trust it.  If for some reason the PS programming command ended up sent to address "0", all the locos on the track would accept it (as it is a broadcast address). At least, that is how I understand OPS programming.

Thank you, Peteski. I try to be thorough. Sometimes getting what is in my head out to Y'all is a challenge. I may be thinking one way -- and the words I write makes Y'all think a different way.

Here are some more words form George at Soundtraxx regarding OPS mode: (I sked him about it)

"Programming on the main causing issues is a DCC myth.  The programming command is prefaced with an address, then the command, so just like a whistle or motion command, the address specifies which loco the command is intended for.  This myth, I believe, was started by someone using a DB200 from Digitrax and did not know what they were doing, and programmed using program track (which is the same outputs on the DB200) and then reset all locos on the track.  If you use program on main, it will ask for an address.  As long as you only have the one decoder set to the intended address, it is the only one going to respond..  "

I was afraid/reluctant to try "on the main" programming. As I too had heard of all other locomotives being "reprogrammed". So, last night when I gave programming on the main a try -- I held my breath ... did it.  I throttled up a few of the other locomotives around my layout (With their address) and off they went. All was good.

Thanks again for helping me learn,
Wolf

[peteski]

POM is a fully supported programming method, and in theory it should be perfectly safe. But I have been around electronic devices (and humans, who sometimes make mistakes) to be cautious.  If something goes wrong (due to an electronic or a human errror), you end up reprogramming all the locos sitting on the track.  So while I do use it myself, if I can, I avoid it.  And, as mentioned, it has limitations (it is a write-only process).

[nstars]

POM is a fully supported programming method, and in theory it should be perfectly safe. But I have been around electronic devices (and humans, who sometimes make mistakes) to be cautious.  If something goes wrong (due to an electronic or a human errror), you end up reprogramming all the locos sitting on the track.  So while I do use it myself, if I can, I avoid it.  And, as mentioned, it has limitations (it is a write-only process).

As mentioned befor, POM is absolutely safe and for me it is essential for tweaking the sound CV’s. You will here the effect immediately.

Marc

[peteski]

As mentioned befor, POM is absolutely safe and for me it is essential for tweaking the sound CV’s. You will here the effect immediately.

Marc

Yes, that (and also adjusting BEMF settigns) are what I use POM for too. I like not to have other locos on the track while I do it.  But I use the programming track for any "serious" reprogramming.  Not having other locos while I use POM is easy for me (since I don't own a layout - just a test track).