Need help modeling this EL mail train

[Point353]

Relettered and repainted, a MTL 72020-4 container flat car might serve as a stand-in for the REA car:

[jargonlet]

Relettered and repainted, a MTL 72020-4 container flat car might serve as a stand-in for the REA car:

It probably would. What brand are those containers?

[nkalanaga]

Micro-Trains containers.  I have that same car, and it came with four plain silver containers.  If they've ever reissued the 20 ft containers I missed them.

[DMetz]

I have also been gathering equipment to model this train.  Or at least a similar EL express passenger train.  The model list in the first post looks good.  But there are a few other options for some of the equipment. 

The converted troop car is also available in N scale from Model Railroad Warehouse.  www.mrrwarehouse.com  These are brass sides intended to overlay the Microtrains troop cars.  I have their part number 772-160-4104, which is the same car that the EL used.  They also have overlays for troop car conversions for other railroads.  The Skytop Models troop cars might be an easier kit to finish.  But I picked up these sides before Skytop offered the converted troop cars.   

The REA trailers are on North American flatcars.  The EL used cars in the NIFX series.  Trainworx recently released G-85 cars lettered for NIFX.  MB Klein still has some available.

I have an REA book that has a couple of pages of info on REA 40 foot trailers.  Basically they are described as all being exterior post, from several manufacturers.  The REA book shows a flat car in an EL train with two trailers.  One has a side door, the other does not.  Both are exterior post, but have different underframe profiles.  But the photo is too grainy for more details.  I am using some older Con-Cor smooth side 40 foot trailer as a stand in.  They are lettered for REA, and will be a stand in until I finish the correct trailers.

The REX flatcars and Unit Haul containers are shown in a photo on pages 94 and 95 of the book EL Through Passenger Service in Color, Volume 1.  The Microtrains flat and 20 foot containers would be a stand in for now.  The containers appear to to be similar, but without the top rail and lifting lugs on the top corners.  The Unit haul containers also have single side door on the right side (curb side).  The photo in the EL book shows that the containers were placed randomly with the single side door on either side of the flatcar.  These should be easy to do with a 3D printed model, if one was available. 

I have not found any other pictures of either the REX flatcars or the Unit Haul containers.  If anyone knows of more info on these, I would appreciate it.

Dan

[thomasjmdavis]

The converted troop car is also available in N scale from Model Railroad Warehouse.  www.mrrwarehouse.com  These are brass sides intended to overlay the Microtrains troop cars.  I have their part number 772-160-4104, which is the same car that the EL used.  They also have overlays for troop car conversions for other railroads. 

Dan

Dan,
Just curious, because I haven't seen one of the MRR Warehouse sides in a decade or two. Caveat that I am working from memory here- so if I am off base, please correct me.  But as I remember it, the original sides predated the MT model, and were designed to fit a 51 or 52 foot boxcar. Which meant they were short by a couple feet of fitting the MT car.  Have they re-done them in a slightly longer form to fit?  If so, I might be ordering a few- they had several interesting variations.  Have you finished a car, and if so, could you post a photo?

[DMetz]

Tom,
I will check on that tonight, and post a photo.  I never started my troop cars, they have always been too far down the pile of unfinished projects.  I was pretty sure these will fit the MT troop cars, because I was planning on how to remove the details on the shells for the sides to fit properly.  The fret has a copyright date of 2005.

Dan

[jmlaboda]

...the original sides predated the MT model, and were designed to fit a 51 or 52 foot boxcar. Which meant they were short by a couple feet of fitting the MT car.  Have they re-done them in a slightly longer form to fit?

This has been discussed over on the N-scale Varnish List... the sides are a bit short for application on the MT cars but the MT cars remain the best core model to use given all the other detail that is on the models.

[jargonlet]

So let's talk about the tofc section. The trailers look to be different sizes. The trailer closest to the front of the train is a bit taller. The other two trailers have side doors and look a bit shorter to me. Both of them seem to be the same size so I don't think its an optical illusion. The empty space on the flatcar with one trailer looks to be shorter than that trailer is. So do we have a pair of 35' trailers and a 40' trailer or three 40' trailers?

As for modeling this section of the train, I think theres two options depending on trailer size:
1: As @DMetz suggested use Trainworx G85 North American NIFX flats if all trailers are 40' or
2: If the pair of trailers on one of the flatcars are 35' use PRR F39 flats

As for the trailers, it looks like the Trainworx Flexivan trailers look to be a good match and could be modified with side doors. As for a 35' trailer, Bachmann makes a flat car with what they claim to be a 35' trailer but I have never seen one in person.

[thomasjmdavis]

You may also want to look at Ultimate kits for flatcars and trailers....
http://ultimatenscale.com/n-scale-decks-and-flatcars.html
http://ultimatenscale.com/n-scale-trailers.html

[mrhedley]

You may want to check out George Elwood's Fallen Flags website.  Photos of most car types should be there.  The site also had consist information on most EL combinations.  Here's the link...

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/pax.html

[cjm413]

For the E8's

http://kvmodels.com/emd-general-locomotive-details-n/

[DMetz]

I have done some digging on the REA trailers, containers, and flatcars.  I found lots of interesting info.  First, the trailer flatcar.  The April 1961 Erie Lackawanna magazine , page 11, has an article describing the inauguration of the REA piggyback service.  See link below, look for April, 1961.  The highlights of the article is the service started on March 28, 1961, the flatcars are G-85 built by GATC, and the flatcars have passenger steam and signal lines.  Another item in the article mentions the trailers are to include a "35-foot highway trailer and two 20-foot Stricktainers (a special type of container-trailer) joined as one 40-foot unit..."  Also known as a double Stricktainer.

http://elmags.railfan.net/magindex.cgi?ERLA 

There was a thread about this on the EL discussion list in 2010, and some internal EL correspondence memos were scanned.  They can be found at the flowing link.

http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-12-20-10

These memos pretty much confirm the magazine article.  They mention that REA was leasing only 75 feet capacity of the 85 foot long G-85 flatcars.  There is also a lot of info on the economics, and the cubic capacity of the trailers and standard boxcars and express cars.  The flatcars have the NIFX reporting marks, and numbered 6000 thru 6009.

So, what is a double Stricktainer?  The Strick Trailer Corporation was an innovator in trailers and containers in the late 50's and early 60's.  The Stricktainer is basically a modern 20 foot ISO shipping container, but it has rails underneath.  There is a single axle with dual wheels that attaches to the rails, and it also has a kingpin and collapsible landing gear.  The wheels can be removed so the container can be placed on a ship.

http://www.stricktrailers.com/about-strick-trailers/history-of-strick-trailers/

They were designed so that two of these can be joined with special castings, similar to modern interlock connectors.  The axle of one container could slide along the rails to the other container, so the two axles became a tandem axle for the combined containers.  They were hauled and shipped as a standard 40 foot trailer.  When they arrived at the REA terminal, the two Stricktainers could be separated, and hauled like two 20 foot trailers.  See the following link for pictures of a Fruehauf version of this.

http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/index.php?topic=37740.0

The Fruehauf version has the containers joined nose to nose.  I don't know how the Stricktainers were joined.  it looks like they could be joined in any configuration.

There is also some references that the double Stricktainer was designed so that it could work in Flexi-Van service, with no modifications to any of the equipment.
I have found some pictures in some of the EL books from Morning Sun that seems to show the 40 foot REA trailer looked like two 20 foot containers joined together.  In some pictures, the dirt and road grime was very different between the two containers that made the 40 foot trailer. 

So to model the flatcar and trailers, the Trainworx G-85 is perfect.  One trailer is a 35 foot highway trailer - not much info on these.  The other trailer is a double Stricktainer.  This could be modeled with a pair of 20 foot containers attached together, with a pair of axles under one end. 

The REA flatcar with containers are also slightly unusual.  There were 23 cars in this service, reporting marks REX, numbers 3101-3109 and 3401-3440.  The flats are also a modified G-85.  These are basically standard G-85 cars, but made with flanges on top of the center sill.  The flanges allowed these cars to be used for both Clejan and standard trailers.  They had special container brackets that allowed the containers to be loaded from the side.  The brackets were special for this service, and attached above the Clejan rails.  That is why it looks like the containers sit high on the flatcar.  The REA truck would pull up beside the flatcar, and the container was slid across sideways to load and unload.  The containers were more similar to standard truck bodies than ISO containers.  The logo Unithaul was used for this service.  These were not compatible with the Stricktainers, they were a totally different service.

The EL ran Mail and Express trains 7 and 8 between New York and Chicago until about the summer of 1965.  Then the trains were discontinued and replaced with Trains 3 and 4.  These were identical to 7 and 8, except without passengers.  A "rider" coach was added for the crew and employees.  The rider coach had a partition in the middle, and had a baggage section for company mail and express.  Both sets of trains added or removed several express or mail cars along the way, at various towns.  This changed seasonally.  The trailer and container flatcars were also variable.  There could be any combination of up to 2 of each in the same train.  And sometimes none of either container flats or trailer flats.  The consist was extremely variable.

Dan

[Mark5]

For the E8's

http://kvmodels.com/emd-general-locomotive-details-n/

Awesome - twin bean headlights for Es and Fs!

[R L Smith]

DMetz  - thanks for the research.  I found this info very helpful.

RLS

[jmlaboda]

A glimpse of what REA trailers were like?  From Cornell University...

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20433895
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20433287