TurboTrain - first test shots

[peteski]

Aren't these cars rounded?  That would explain the thickness in the middle.

Yes, but so are Kato Amfleets. That is what slide molds are for.

[OldEastRR]

Peteski, just put passengers dressed up like deepsea divers in your turbos and you'll have a reason for the thick windows and walls!!

[nstars]

I have to see how much thicker it really is as we don’t have a similar picture of the amfleet car. The pictures have no good references and these cars a considerable smaller than Amfleet cars.

But even if it is thicker, there could be multiple reasons why it has to be thicker. One reason could be strength. The posts between windows are very narrow compared to Amfleet cars and I wouldn’t like crushing a post every time I took the car of the track.

Marc

[peteski]

I have to see how much thicker it really is as we don’t have a similar picture of the amfleet car. The pictures have no good references and these cars a considerable smaller than Amfleet cars.

But even if it is thicker, there could be multiple reasons why it has to be thicker. One reason could be strength. The posts between windows are very narrow compared to Amfleet cars and I wouldn’t like crushing a post every time I took the car of the track.

Marc

I suspect that the reason is simple: thicker walls are most likely a result of using a simpler (less expensive) molds to produce this curved-side model.  I just happen to have a Kato Amfleet car apart and the inside walls are curved to follow the outside contour.  The wall thickness is between 0.035" and 0.042".
Let me repeat: I'm extremely grateful that Rapido is offering this model in N scale (especially after all those years of anticipation).  I pre-ordered 2 (sound-equipped sets), so I'm committed it it.  But I'm still disappointed with how it is rendered, especially knowing that other (better or finer) molding methods are available (and utilized by other model companies).

[Point353]

Hope Rapido gets the drive mechanism functioning satisfactorily on the first pass, unlike with their HO (H0) version.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I don't think you can really compare a vertically integrated company like Kato with in house mold making to Rapido, who uses contractors. They are bound by what equipment their supplier has. We are also talking about a full train set, not an individual car. The Kato Amfleet has at least three tooling inserts for the interior cavity: two slim convex wall liners and a square plug that fits between them. To demold the model, you have to pull the plug, then push in the wall liners and remove them. That is a lot of additional steps and parts for a full train.

If Rapido took extra care in the polish and uniformity of the window insert, there should be no coke bottle effect. I work behind 2.5" of ballistic glass that doesn't show any distortions.

[peteski]

If Rapido took extra care in the polish and uniformity of the window insert, there should be no coke bottle effect. I work behind 2.5" of ballistic glass that doesn't show any distortions.

We are talking about more like 12" ballistic glass here. 

There sort of is a workaround (like Rapido used on the Osgood Bradley cars), where the glass panes are thinner except for the edges, but that leaves a very visible border around the window pane. Other companies (um, like Kato) figured out how to minimize that artifact (as they also use a similar method of making flush windows).  Here is a closeup of OB car and a Kato Orient Express car. They both use the same method for flush-mounted windows.



I guess your explanation of Rapido being much smaller company than Kato (thus having less money to invest in quality tooling) sounds logical. I should be happy that the Turbo Train is being made, regardless of its quality or design. But then there is the point that I'm getting a model with Kato prices, but not with Kato quality.

[rapidotrains]

I guess your explanation of Rapido being much smaller company than Kato (thus having less money to invest in quality tooling) sounds logical. I should be happy that the Turbo Train is being made, regardless of its quality or design. But then there is the point that I'm getting a model with Kato prices, but not with Kato quality.

Kato would not touch this model. If they did, they would make one style of PDC and one style of IC. We are making three PDCs and five ICs. A Canadian IC-30 TurboCoach is very different from an American IC-36 TurboCoach, just as an IC-33 TurboClub is very different from an IC-31 TurboBuffeteria.

To make collapsible cores for that many cars and PDCs would put the retail price of this train up around $1500. Would you pay that much more to get the walls thinner?

-Jason

[Point353]

Kato would not touch this model. If they did, they would make one style of PDC and one style of IC. We are making three PDCs and five ICs. A Canadian IC-30 TurboCoach is very different from an American IC-36 TurboCoach, just as an IC-33 TurboClub is very different from an IC-31 TurboBuffeteria.

To make collapsible cores for that many cars and PDCs would put the retail price of this train up around $1500. Would you pay that much more to get the walls thinner?

For the Milwaukee Road Olympian Hiawatha train set, Kato made seven different styles of passenger cars and two locos.
The MSRP for a nine-car train plus a pair of locos is under $500.

[nstars]

Kato would not touch this model. If they did, they would make one style of PDC and one style of IC. We are making three PDCs and five ICs. A Canadian IC-30 TurboCoach is very different from an American IC-36 TurboCoach, just as an IC-33 TurboClub is very different from an IC-31 TurboBuffeteria.

To make collapsible cores for that many cars and PDCs would put the retail price of this train up around $1500. Would you pay that much more to get the walls thinner?

-Jason

Jason,

I think you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to the model!

Marc

[delamaize]

For the Milwaukee Road Olympian Hiawatha train set, Kato made seven different styles of passenger cars and two locos.
The MSRP for a nine-car train plus a pair of locos is under $500.

And Kato is a lot bigger company, with a lot more models, and a lot more income from other models. They can afford to eat high tooling costs. Not to mention the locomotives alone can be re-released into multiple different railroads to recoup cost. Not to mention several of the cars can be used, with other cars they already have tooling for, to produce other consist, again regaining some of the cost. Lets also mention that the cars from the Oly Hiawatha are fairly simple shapes, and don't have complex curved sides like the Turbo, witch means cheaper tools.

The amount of complaining about this already is, frankly, starting to get irritating. And feels a lot like nitpicking by armchair quarterbacks that do not work in the manufacturing industry, and don't understand how expensive it is to make quality tooling, let along COMPLEX quality tooling. I mean, Christ, Rapido is really going out on a limb to produce a unique trainset, that was only ran by a few railroads, for a fairly short time period. Not to mention they are doing this partially to fulfill the wishes of a dearly departed fellow a$$hat. I personally think it will be fine, and when everything is said and done, the only people that are even going to notice the "Thick walls" will be the anal retentive, nit picking, rivet counters.

I await the Banhammer......

[peteski]

Kato would not touch this model. If they did, they would make one style of PDC and one style of IC. We are making three PDCs and five ICs. A Canadian IC-30 TurboCoach is very different from an American IC-36 TurboCoach, just as an IC-33 TurboClub is very different from an IC-31 TurboBuffeteria.

To make collapsible cores for that many cars and PDCs would put the retail price of this train up around $1500. Would you pay that much more to get the walls thinner?

-Jason

Ok, so you confirmed my speculations. I guess I have to lower my expectations while it comes to comparing Rapido to Kato. And I also have to pay a price comparable to Kato prices, due to small quantity produced by Rapido as compared to Kato.  But I'll get a unique and accurate model.  I get it now.


So Mike, you would like me to get banned for factual statements (even if they sound negative to you)?  Really?  Yes, I'm nitpicky - but that is my privilege. I just happen to notice small things and that is the part of me enjoying this hobby.  I guess you don't like my super-anal dissection write-ups of models either? I point out both the positive and negative minutia on those.  No, I'm not an industry insider, but I understand how things are made to be dangerous. Is that a bad thing?  I also feel that pre-ordering 2 of these sets give me the right to analyze what I see. Who knows, maybe without my pre-order Turbo-Train might not have happened.    Have you pre-ordered a Turbo Train Mike, or are you throwing in your 5 cents?

[Point353]

And Kato is a lot bigger company, with a lot more models, and a lot more income from other models. They can afford to eat high tooling costs. Not to mention the locomotives alone can be re-released into multiple different railroads to recoup cost. Not to mention several of the cars can be used, with other cars they already have tooling for, to produce other consist, again regaining some of the cost. Lets also mention that the cars from the Oly Hiawatha are fairly simple shapes, and don't have complex curved sides like the Turbo, witch means cheaper tools.

The Skytop observation car isn't a "simple shape" nor is the Superdome car a simple model.
How many other roads used the exact same configuration of FP7 as did the Milwaukee?
The Turbo is being offered by Rapido in six paint schemes.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Simmer down Pete.   

I am holding judgment till I see a completed model, or at least a shot of the windows in the test shots.

From what Rapido has done in the past, I'll defer to their expertise. They have not let me down yet.

[nstars]

Simmer down Pete.   

I am holding judgment till I see a completed model, or at least a shot of the windows in the test shots.

From what Rapido has done in the past, I'll defer to their expertise. They have not let me down yet.

+1

Marc