GP-30 questions

[Catt]

Hi guys,
  I have a question about the ATLAS/KATO GP-30 locos.There were two different cabs offered on the prototype,but I am not sure which cabs were used on these locos Unfortunately mine are in a place I can not go.(my basement trainroom)So I'm asking if y'all know I the A/K locos had the cab with the extension on the conductors side (I think).

If I remember correctly ATLAS has offered both cab styles after they switched over to Chinese manufacture.

[JMaurer1]

If only there was a website that had info on all of the N scale locomotives that had been made...WAIT:

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp3035.html

"The cab on the "Phase 1" version is symetrical, whereas the cab on the previous "Phase 2" versions is 10 scale inches shorter on the left side. Also, the Phase 1 version lacks a handrail stanchion on the left side. Despite the minor shell changes, the chassis/mechanism in the 2008 Phase 1 version is the same as the one used in the 2006 Phase 2 version."

Sounds like a phase 2 from 2006.

[Atlas Paul]

All of the Kato (made in Japan) GP30s are Phase 2. The Phase 1 tooling was added after the tooling was moved to China.

[wcfn100]

If only there was a website that had info on all of the N scale locomotives that had been made...

If only that information was correct (or at least written more clearly). 

The Phase 2 cab is 10" longer on the fireman's side than the Phase 1 to make room for an added seat in the cab.  This added length also led to the removal of one stanchion on that side of the Phase 2.


Jason

[Missaberoad]

If only that information was correct (or at least written more clearly). 
The Phase 2 cab is 10" longer on the fireman's side than the Phase 1 to make room for an added seat in the cab.  This added length also led to the removal of one stanchion on that side of the Phase 2.
Jason

What was the reason for the extra seat? did the Phase 1 units not have a fireman's seat? Or did this bring the total to 4?

@Atlas Paul Retooled scale hood width GP30/35 hint hint cough cough...  (And SD7 SD9 SD18 for that matter )

[wazzou]

...or corrected fan spacing.

[Mark5]

What was the reason for the extra seat?

Supposedly cuz UP requested an extra seat: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,423005

Dunno if this is true.

[Catt]

Thanks guys,I thought the ATLAS/Kato were phase II but was not sure.

[C855B]

Supposedly cuz UP requested an extra seat: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,423005

And then UP turned right around and ordered a bunch without any seats at all:

  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1599815

          

[Mark5]

Love the GP30B ... 

What were the last "B" units? GP60B?

Mark

[Cory Rothlisberger]

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/32482215/n-scale-gp30-phase-1-the-atlas-model-railroad-co/2

Just sayin...


Edit: Good God! Just realized I wrote that 10 years ago...

[davefoxx]

If that's a Phase 1 GP30, then what's the GP22 demo unit called once EMD decider to reclassify it as a GP30?  A Phase 0 GP30?   

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/emdGP22a.jpg

Check out that funky roofline over the cab and GP9 details (class lights and holes in the sill over the air tanks).

DFF

[C855B]

Love the GP30B ... 

What were the last "B" units? GP60B?

Yes. Apparently the RRs have this periodic love/hate thing with cabless. BN bought a couple of dozen B30-7A units (The 'A' signifying the B-unit version. ) just a couple of years before Santa Fe's GP60Bs.

I find it hard to fathom that previous to those two, the last deliberate, production B-unit was the Alco C855B in 1964. (ATSF's SD45Bs were wreck rebuilds.) Apparently the folks in charge circa the GP60s hadn't learned or had forgotten the lessons of their forebears. The thinking was they could save tens of thousands each by not equipping them with human support (controls, sanitation, etc.), realizing only later - the hard way - that they created power balance issues when all this horsepower piled up on the ready tracks and the power dispatcher still had to beg for something to run a train with.

"Sorry, but the computer here says you have nearly 20,000 horsepower on deck. So what's the problem?" Seriously. I have heard a couple of firsthand accounts of trainmasters being put in this position. The computer reports had no provision to demark a cabless unit, and their sometimes non-RR-experienced managers simply didn't understand.

Anyway, the train delays and inflexibilities of Bs cost more than the initial savings and realized reduced maintenance.

[Ike the BN Freak]

Yes. Apparently the RRs have this periodic love/hate thing with cabless. BN bought a couple of dozen B30-7A units (The 'A' signifying the B-unit version. )

120 B30-7As, and the A signified they were powered by a 12 cylinder FDL versus the 16 cylinder version FDL in the B30-7.  MP had B30-7As with cabs.  BN also had 8 standard B30-7s of Frisco heritage, powered by the 16FDL.

[Ike the BN Freak]

I find it hard to fathom that previous to those two, the last deliberate, production B-unit was the Alco C855B in 1964. (ATSF's SD45Bs were wreck rebuilds.) Apparently the folks in charge circa the GP60s hadn't learned or had forgotten the lessons of their forebears. The thinking was they could save tens of thousands each by not equipping them with human support (controls, sanitation, etc.), realizing only later - the hard way - that they created power balance issues when all this horsepower piled up on the ready tracks and the power dispatcher still had to beg for something to run a train with.

I've heard with the BN units, it was a savings of around $40k per unit, and over 120 units, that is a pretty big savings. However I've also heard stories the train consist programs not knowing which units were cabless versus cabbed. From a former ATSF engineer on the Joint Line out of Denver, getting a train out of Denver with 4 BN 4000s, the series the B30-7As were assigned too, as his power. Other stories I've heard had the B30-7As leading trains, and trainmasters not wanting to change the consist as the systems didn't like changes. Eventually BN fixed their systems to show cabless and cabbed units.