Author Topic: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF  (Read 1428 times)

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carlso

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LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« on: April 23, 2017, 03:01:46 PM »
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Most recent discussions have been regarding The new release of the GS-4, so I post a quick 42 second video to remind us all of KATO's expertise. Hope you enjoy and as always, have fun,
Carl


« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 01:51:50 AM by GaryHinshaw »
Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas

Mark5

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Re: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 05:11:15 PM »
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Sometimes, Kato gets it right ...  8)


sundowner

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Re: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 06:04:19 PM »
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My GS-4 did her maiden trip with my FEF and my SP heritage unit.
Which ever side of the track I am on is the right side.

Nato

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Re: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 01:04:32 AM »
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                       :|I have to disagree, as groundbreaking as the Kato FEF 3 is they really missed the boat on this one. Only hard core UP Rivet Counters like robert3985 or UP1950's would disagree with what I say here. All the FEF 3 locomotives looked enough alike to the untrained Semi Rivet Counter, that KATO should have offered most of the road numbers and in both Two Tone Gray passenger scheme and black freight. They could be selling a ton of them right now. There is just one big flaw. The modern oil bunker on the tender. This part is not a separate part like it s on Athearn locomotives so the whole top of the tender deck has to be replaced. Most modelers probably do not care or know if say a Worthington Feed Water Heater was there on a particular locomotive or when such features were applied, and the harder core among us will certainly add these details, but the modern Oil Bunker is something that is quite obvious. Nate Goodman (Nato).  :|

robert3985

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Re: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 10:59:51 PM »
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                       :|I have to disagree, as groundbreaking as the Kato FEF 3 is they really missed the boat on this one. Only hard core UP Rivet Counters like robert3985 or UP1950's would disagree with what I say here. All the FEF 3 locomotives looked enough alike to the untrained Semi Rivet Counter, that KATO should have offered most of the road numbers and in both Two Tone Gray passenger scheme and black freight. They could be selling a ton of them right now. There is just one big flaw. The modern oil bunker on the tender. This part is not a separate part like it s on Athearn locomotives so the whole top of the tender deck has to be replaced. Most modelers probably do not care or know if say a Worthington Feed Water Heater was there on a particular locomotive or when such features were applied, and the harder core among us will certainly add these details, but the modern Oil Bunker is something that is quite obvious. Nate Goodman (Nato).  :|

Thanks for the compliment Nate!  :D  Why would I disagree with you Nate @Nato ??  I agree with everything you say except that Kato "really missed the boat" with their FEF-3 and one more point about the two-tone-gray scheme.  Where Kato continues to "miss the boat" with both their FEF-3 and their GS-4 is not making various iterations of each model available by cutting some molds for a few different parts.

On the FEF-3, I agree completely that they should offer a pre-safety-appliance oil tender bunker because it IS obvious the present model has been modernized.  I also agree they should be offering a lot of numbers as all of the FEF-3's in the last black paint scheme got Worthington SA feedwater heaters, so every FEF-3 number would be appropriate. 

To increase their sales even more, by cutting a mold for the bolt-on pilot of the FEF-2's (as opposed to the cast pilots of the FEF-3's), Kato could EASILY offer accurate, late FEF-2's in black livery, and if they don't do this simple modification, they're really kicking themselves in the head as far as additional sales are concerned.

However, seeing both models of Worthington SA feedwater heater equipped FEF's vs non-Worthington SA feedwater heater equipped FEF's side by side on my layout, the differences are quite obvious from the top and the fireman side of the locomotive.  Worthington SA feedwater heaters added 18" to the length of the smokebox to make room for a rectangular box in front of the double stack...which is a blatantly obvious difference to engines without it.  Also, the feedwater heater pump hanging under the running board on the fireman's side between the two middle drivers, and the associated big pipes Z-ing up to the smokebox from them are also blatantly obvious as compared to the engines without them.  Ya don't have to be a rivet-counter to see 'em, or not see 'em...because they're very obvious.

To model FEF's without the Worthington SA feedwater heater would call for a different smokebox casting, a different boiler casting, a different running board/under running board detail casting on the fireman's side, and a different firebox detail casting...which would be a fair-sized investment for Kato.  However, chassis & running gear, cab, pilot, locomotive domes, lights, bell, generator, smoke deflectors, smokebox front and tender would all remain the same.  BUT, this would open up accurate, transition era Greyhound paint schemes in two versions (with yellow striping and letters, and with white striping and letters) as well as the late black scheme.

For instance, the 844 between 1947 and 1953 or so, had the Greyhound paint scheme with white (flat aluminum) striping and lettering, but before 1947 the striping and lettering was Armour Yellow...but the 844 in this time period did not have the Worthington SA feedwater heater. After she was painted black sometime in the early 1950's, she received the Worthington SA feedwater heater probably in a major shopping in about 1953.  In Excursion Service after 844 was re-numbered to 8444, she received the modern Greyhound paint scheme with Armour yellow striping and lettering in Sept 1987. Then, when she was renumbered back to 844, she retained the Greyhound paint until shopped after her boiler tube failure at Railfair in July 1999.  When she was running again in 2005, she had various black paint schemes...sometimes with aluminum striping and tires, and sometimes beautiful, plain black.

So, in the preceding paragraph, Kato could take advantage of ONE (the 844) FEF-3 and her various configurations and different paint schemes for different time periods in these ways:

(1)  844 No Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in Greyhound scheme w Armour yellow lettering and striping (Post oil conversion early Passenger Service)
(2)  844 No Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in Greyhound scheme w white (flat aluminum) lettering and striping (Mid Passenger Service - last transition era TTG paint scheme)
(3)  844 No Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in shiny, solid black (Post TTG paint- Mid Passenger Service in early 1950's)
(4)  844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in shiny solid black (Late Passenger Service and Misc Freight Service until 1959)
(5)  844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in shiny black with aluminum striping, tires and smoke deflector outline (early Excursion Service starting in early 1960)
(6)  8444 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in shiny black with aluminum striping, tires and smoke deflector outline (early Excursion Service)
(7)  8444 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, pre-safety appliance oil bunker in Greyhound scheme, with Armour Yellow striping and lettering (excursion service)
(8 ) 844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, modern oil bunker in Greyhound scheme, with Armour Yellow striping and lettering (excursion service until 1999)
(9)  844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, modern oil bunker in solid, shiny black (post February 2005)
(10) 844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, modern oil bunker in shiny black, aluminum striping, tires
(11) 844 With Worthington SA feedwater heater, modern oil bunker in shiny black, aluminum striping, tires, no red Gyralite over headlight (as she is in 2017)

That's eleven different paint schemes and distinct equipment changes for just the 844.  Each of the other nine FEF-3's (835-843) could all be released in the first four variations and possibly dolled up with aluminum striping and tires in black for a fifth variation. That'd be a potential 45 different releases for Kato.

With the addition of an FEF-2 bolt-on pilot, converting the Kato FEF-3 into an FEF-2, the first four variations plus the possible fifth dolled-up version could be released for each of the fifteen FEF-2's (820-834).  That'd be a potential 75 different releases for Kato.

Add up the potential 11 releases just for the 844, plus the potential 45 releases for the remaining FEF-3's and the potential 75 releases for FEF-2's...that totals up to a staggering 131 separate and distinct potential releases for this engine chassis, with some relatively minor detail/paint differences.

Of course, we haven't even mentioned single stacks, triple stacks and no smoke lifter variations!!

And...coal versions, as all of them were when they came from Alco before conversion to oil.

I'm not even going to get into de-skirting the GS-4....

Yup, Kato IS missing the boat with ignoring the potential profits they could earn with just a little effort with both of these models, but the models themselves are excellent.

Here's what I was doing most of the day today...

Photo (1) - 844 in Ogden, 04/25/2017:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 05:06:39 AM by robert3985 »

bdennis

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Re: LET'S NOT FORGET THE KATO FEF
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 12:13:01 AM »
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I would like to see a D&H K-4.. It is way too late for me, time wise but I would buy one anyway..
http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/dh309.htm
Smooth boiler - check
Smoke deflectors - check..
correct drivers - check.
Now we just need a new tender sub frame and we are away..
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division