Hooking up programing track to Digitrax Zephyr

[OldEastRR]

There is continuity from pack leads to rails.
Both zephyrs I used didn't read pgm track decoders. One of them used to.
The locos run normally on DCC on the main.
The locos went to a club where there's more comprehensive DCC equipment including a computer hook-up and that indicated all the decoders were ok.
I give up. This mystery is beyond my powers to solve. I'll still use DCC. I'll live with whatever the decoder settings from the factory are, I'll shut off the pack when a loco suddenly goes screaming into high speed, I'll remove and set aside the inevitable blowing up decoders (hopefully no more of my sound ones) for replacement eventually. Someday when my budget can afford it w/o more credit card debt, I'll get an NCE pack. I'm staying w/ DCC since my layout and locos are all geared to that. I just wish it wasn't so damn hard to understand and use.

[Mark W]

I just wish it wasn't so damn hard to understand and use.

Honestly, I think you're making it out to be much more difficult than it really is.  This thread is fully of people asking for important additional information necessary to help troubleshoot, but you haven't answered one of them.  You have to help us before we can help you. 

Only thing I can recommend at this point is to pick up a copy of this book and read it cover to cover, maybe twice.  At the end, you'll be singing DCC from the Styrofoam N Scale mountain tops.   
http://www.digitrax.com/products/digitrax-big-book-dcc/

[mu26aeh]

Or contact Digitrax.  Their customer support is very good in my book.  Tell them your symptoms, they will probably request some information and request some troubleshooting, and possibly come to same conclusion we have that programming may be shot.

[Greg Elmassian]

If you had a Digitrax that used to be able to read back and no longer does, that by itself would indicate something changed.

If you have tried a short piece of sectional track tied to the program track outputs, then the obvious conclusion is that there is something wrong with the unit PROVIDED that you have also tried other locos, and really the best test is put a decoder across the programming outputs and of course connect a motor to the motor outputs.

But, having the program track not work on TWO units is suspicious.

Something does not smell right here.

(by the way, the way I read Pete's comment, he was expressing an opinion on the suitability for a particular system for a particular individual, not trying to insult anyone or any product.)

Greg

[peteski]

(by the way, the way I read Pete's comment, he was expressing an opinion on the suitability for a particular system for a particular individual, not trying to insult anyone or any product.)

Greg

Thank you Greg - that is exactly what I meant (but many long-time members here also remember my personal dislike of the Digitrax human interface in general)  .

As far as troubleshooting goes, you are right - Al seems to be unwilling to provide enough detailed info to try to solve the problem, other than just  giving him some general hints.

[OldEastRR]

How much more detailed can I get?
I said the track registers no decoders, even ones that have just been running on the main.
I said I've checked the wires and rails of the Pgm track and they show a complete circuit.
I said the locos can be detected on another layout's pgm track.
I said I've tried two Zephyrs and same result.
I said the pgm track is a single piece of Unitrack off by itself not connected to the main.
I've tried the "Page" mode for the pgm track. I've been able to get some CV changed by usi ng "OPS" on the mainline.
I follow EXACTLY the steps from the manual for programming. MULTIPLE times.
I've even disconnected the pack from everything else and still no go.
The message keeps coming up "d nd".
What else do you need to know?
Yes, a friend has the Big Book of DCC (if he can find it).
Hard for me to believe there's some crossed-wires somewhere, but SOMETHING happened to the pack's ability to work the pgm track.
Maybe I should drop a quarter across the pgm's tracks rails and try to read that.

[robert3985]

How much more detailed can I get?
I said the track registers no decoders, even ones that have just been running on the main.
I said I've checked the wires and rails of the Pgm track and they show a complete circuit.
I said the locos can be detected on another layout's pgm track.
I said I've tried two Zephyrs and same result.
I said the pgm track is a single piece of Unitrack off by itself not connected to the main.
I've tried the "Page" mode for the pgm track. I've been able to get some CV changed by usi ng "OPS" on the mainline.
I follow EXACTLY the steps from the manual for programming. MULTIPLE times.
I've even disconnected the pack from everything else and still no go.
The message keeps coming up "d nd".

What else do you need to know?

Yes, a friend has the Big Book of DCC (if he can find it).
Hard for me to believe there's some crossed-wires somewhere, but SOMETHING happened to the pack's ability to work the pgm track.
Maybe I should drop a quarter across the pgm's tracks rails and try to read that.

You need to let us know what brand of decoders you're trying to program and run.

I re-read this thread, and I didn't see any mention of what brand the decoders are you're trying to program...and if they're "sound" or not...my apologies if I missed that.

Your problem sounds exactly like the problems I had when I first got my DCC starter system and tried to read and program MRC sound decoders in Athearn Challengers.

If you've only used early Digitrax Zephyr starter sets to attempt to read/program or even change the addresses on your MRC sound decoder equipped engines, you won't be able to do it without adding a "programming track booster" such as the Soundtraxx PTB-100.  I added it to my programming track and VOILA!...the MRC sound decoders suddenly became visible and fully programmable (which didn't help their motor control and sound quality any).

Sound decoders in general require more voltage on the programming track to be programmed properly, and sometimes, like in my early MRC decoder case, they are difficult or impossible to read also.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Greg Elmassian]

How much more detailed can I get?
I said the track registers no decoders, even ones that have just been running on the main.
>>>> as mentioned before, have you tried different brands of decoders with the same results?

I said I've checked the wires and rails of the Pgm track and they show a complete circuit.
>>>> just be sure the program track is completely isolated from the main line. With all the issues you have had, it's best to hook the wires to a separate piece of sectional track. I had a friend have a similar problem, and turns out that somehow a nail to fix the track went through and touched a power wire, all hidden from view.

I said the locos can be detected on another layout's pgm track.
>>> can you read and write them, and whose DCC system?

I said I've tried two Zephyrs and same result.
>>> extremely suspicious, if all Digitrax Zephyrs did not work, no one would buy them and Digitrax would have been out of business long ago. There is something else happening here we do not understand

I said the pgm track is a single piece of Unitrack off by itself not connected to the main.
>>> as above, please try a new separate piece of track, when all logical things fail, change the things that do not make sense.... it's easy to try and verify

I've tried the "Page" mode for the pgm track. I've been able to get some CV changed by usi ng "OPS" on the mainline.
>>> yeah, ops mode most likely works because you can run trains... you should not have to use page mode on a modern decoder... keeps pointing to the decoder or the decoder installation

I follow EXACTLY the steps from the manual for programming. MULTIPLE times.
>>>> I think we all believe you, since you have programmed on other systems....

I've even disconnected the pack from everything else and still no go.
>>> yeah, still not making sense

The message keeps coming up "d nd".
>>> sorry don't have a digitrax manual to know what that means, what does the manual tell you this means?

What else do you need to know?
>>>> can you try these suggestions and report back? I am SURE we can debug this..

Yes, a friend has the Big Book of DCC (if he can find it).
Hard for me to believe there's some crossed-wires somewhere, but SOMETHING happened to the pack's ability to work the pgm track.
>>> again, when all the things that make sense don't work, you change something that you are SURE is NOT wrong...

Maybe I should drop a quarter across the pgm's tracks rails and try to read that.
>>> actually a good test for your mainline wiring, but nothing to do with the program track (I know you know that ha ha)

[reinhardtjh]

You need to let us know what brand of decoders you're trying to program and run.

This does make a difference as there are some decoders which will not register and you get the "D nd" result.  You need to lay or clip a 1K resistor across the programming tracks.  This is because the decoder does not draw enough current when doing the ACK for the command station to notice.  The early Bachmann decoders are notorious for this.  The decoder in the 44t often had this problem.  The 4-6-0 decoder may also and there are others that will do it sometimes and not others - probably the current draw is right on the edge of detection.

[John]

A quick visit to Mr. Google

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB362/atlas-dcc-decoder-programming-problem-d-nd-on-dcs-/


KB362: Atlas DCC Decoder Programming Problem ("d nd") on DCS 50

This article was last updated on Jan. 7, 2014, 8:24 p.m. | Print Article | Leave Feedback
 

My Atlas DCC N-Scale locomotives that are equipped with factory installed Lenz062xf, Lenz063xf decoders will not program using any mode on Program track.

I know the system works because I can easily program every Digitrax decoder loco that I have, but if I put an Atlas DCC factory loco on the programming track I get the 'd nd' error code.



There are decoders now present in the market that do not draw enough current for the programming track to reliably detect that they are present, hence the error report of "d-nd".

All you have to do is to use a 1K 0hm 1/4 watt resistor across Prog A and Prog B outputs during the program process and it will program the Lenz/Atlas decoders.

 

[John]

[John]

[mmyers]

Try this quick fix on your programming track. If a 1k ohm resitor is not handy (and for most irit is not). place anther suitable "load" on your program track along with the DCC engine to be programmed. Another DC engine, a lighted passenger car, etc. will work. You might have to extend the program track for it to fit. This will add some extra current draw so that the command station can see the  "ack" response from the decoder. Also use Direct mode programming. It is obvious that if the engine runs when selected, the decoder is working and its address is properly programmed.
Something you may have to forgo is reading the decoder. Some decoders just won't read without a programing booster. Not the system's fault, blame the decoder manufacturers for changing the game after the spec was written. Readback can be a valuable tool but it isn't the end of the world. If I read a decoder and the value is right, I don't need to change anuthing. If the value is wrong , i have to program the correct value. If I just write the correct value in the first p[lace without reading, I get the same outcome.

Don't place a quarter across the rails, that will just short out the program outputs which only apply voltage when writing or reading.

Martin Myers

[OldEastRR]

Actually I DO have resisters -- those big honking you can pick them up and hold them in place resistors from the OLD days (I was making Twin-T circuits). So I'm going to try that hookup, then a new track. Tho the track I'm using had no trouble carrying DC current to make loco wheels spin while I was cleaning them off on a paper towel. Sigh.

[peteski]

Actually I DO have resisters -- those big honking you can pick them up and hold them in place resistors from the OLD days (I was making Twin-T circuits). So I'm going to try that hookup, then a new track. Tho the track I'm using had no trouble carrying DC current to make loco wheels spin while I was cleaning them off on a paper towel. Sigh.

Al, physical size is not relevant - its their resistance that is important.    Do you have any which are 1000 ohms or 1 k ohm?