Kato Tram

[JoeD]

Anyone have experience with Kato Tram track?  I have finished up what I needed to do in HO and turning back to my N scale shelf model of PE street running and think this might just save me a ton of work.  Radius is not an issue as they were pretty tight downtown anyway.  I suspect they work great but before I send off a bunch of cash, just wondering about the switches and how they work with loco's and not just street cars.

Thanks

JOe

[Chris333]

I looked them up to (Kato Portram) use the power trucks. The power trucks are very small.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/23779-okwb-kato-portram-evolves-to-a-lister/page-3
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2011/post-9877-0-63567800-1302216667.jpg

[peteski]

I looked them up to (Kato Portram) use the power trucks. The power trucks are very small.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/23779-okwb-kato-portram-evolves-to-a-lister/page-3
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2011/post-9877-0-63567800-1302216667.jpg

I also thought that Joe was asking about the model - he is looking for opinions about the track.  I wrote up a lengthy post about the very delicate model but realizing this was about the track, I deleted it.

[Chris333]

oops 

[JoeD]

I also thought that Joe was asking about the model - he is looking for opinions about the track.  I wrote up a lengthy post about the very delicate model but realizing this was about the track, I deleted it.

Crap, you mean I missed one of your lengthy posts???

LOL

[brill27mcb]

The two choices for ready-made street running are Kato Initram and Tomix Wide Tram.

Kato is double-track, and you also get the side traffic lanes of the street, the sidewalk and the city block as well. Costs more, but you can plop down some autos and buildings and you are all set. The turnouts are double-track, and the turnouts on both tracks operate in unison with one switch machine. The street markings are all based on left-side-of-road traffic operation, being Japanese.

Tomix is single-track sections, with three radii offered, so you can make double- and even triple-track. The Moving Bus System road lane sections also fit into this scheme, so you can have buses and trolleys running side-by-side on the street. There are no paved turnouts yet, but Tomix sells a "paving kit"(Item 3079)  that puts street around a ballasted "Mini-Points" turnout and other pieces, so you can easily make your own paved turnout that way. The only street markings are edge stripes on each piece.

As far as locomotives and the turnouts, if the loco can handle the particular tight radius there should be no problem. The Kato turnout radius is about 180mm (7 inches), I think, and Tomix is 140mm (5.5 inches).

Hope this helps!

Rich K.

[peteski]

Crap, you mean I missed one of your lengthy posts???

LOL

Yup - ain't that a shame? 

[brokemoto]

I have quite a bit of experience with it.  Finally, I took it off my pike and replaced it with either Kato UNITRAK, Atlas SNAPTRAK, Atlas Flex and B-mann E-Z TRAK.  I am much happier with all of the above.  In fact,  on another forum, someone started a topic on proejcts that you knew better than to try but did so, anyway.  I am going to post my experience with UNTIRAM to that topic.

I ran several locomotives through it under laboratory conditions.  In fact, I posted the results to this forum.  This was some time back, shortly after the turnout pieces appeared.  While those locomotives ran under laboratory conditions, the results under actual operating conditions were disappointing, at best.  After derailments, lost contact due to climbing and the positioning of the plastic frogs and diamonds in the turnout pieces, the operating headaches were far more trouble than it was worth.  I am much happier with even the B-mann E-ZTRAK than I am with UNItRAM.

The only diesel locomotives that I could run with any consistent success over the turnouts were the B-mann 44 and 70 tonners or the Kato NW-2s.  Even those had to be run in pairs, as single units would stall on the turnouts because of the positioning of the plastic diamonds and frogs.  The only steam that I could operate on them with any consistency were the second run Atlas Shay and the Athearn/MDC 2-6-0/2-8-0.  The second run Atlas Shay was pretty good.  The Athearn/MDCs stalled enough for it to be annoying

The only diesel locomotive that would operate as a single unit was the E-R Baldwin Shark.  It performed flawlessly on them as well as on the sharp curves.

The Kato RS-2/RSC-2, The Atlas FM roadswitcher, GP-7/GP-9 and LL FA-1 were inconsistent.  Often, they would run, but still they stalled frequently enough on the turnout pieces that I considered them a failure.  Of the foregoing, the Atlas FM was the best.

The following either derailed or lost contact on the curves due to climbing:  B-mann:  2-8-0, 4-6-0;  B-mann ALCo S-4.  On the B-mann USRA 0-6-0 with the SPECTRUM tender added, the tender derails on the curves.  Atlas:  RS-3/RSD-4, ALCo S-2.  LL:  BL-2. FA-2, SW-9/SW-1200.   These locomotives also climbed the turnout pieces and either derailed or stalled. 

In addition, the B-mann Peter Witt streetcar will not operate on the turnouts or the curves.  It climbs the curves and stalls on the turnouts.

If you do not mind running the diesel switchers in pairs, you might want to hardwire them together, as the single units will stall on the turnouts.  The second unit provides just enough push that they will re-establish contact even at the extremely slow street running speeds.

Oh, and one more thing.  This problem develops during use.  After some use, the mechanism will not throw the points properly.  This causes derailments.  What you must do is push the points into proper alignment manually.

The pieces come in double track, but it is not difficult to cut the straight and curved sections into single tracks, which is what most street running is.  I was going to try to cut one of the turnout pieces into single track in an effort to address the unfortunate spacing between the plastic frogs and diamonds, but after taking apart one, I lost heart.

Someone really needs to manufacture #4 street turnouts.  I can do the regular track sections myself, but never have I been happy with any turnouts that I have done.  I had hoped that the Kato would be an answer to my problems.  It was not.

[loco-n]

peteski,
Could you start a new post about the Kato Portram power truck? This drive unit is of interest for many projects of small locomotives.
Thank's in advance, Franz

[peteski]

peteski,
Could you start a new post about the Kato Portram power truck? This drive unit is of interest for many projects of small locomotives.
Thank's in advance, Franz

Franz, my lengthy post was basically stating the virtues of this excellent Kato model and warning that it is very delicate and needs to be kept away from dirt and debris (like ballast).  I took one apart then they first came out few years back but I didn't take any photos.  Basically each truck has a tiny 3V corless motor with small flywheel and each sideframe holds a pair if wheels and idler gears (there are no axles going through the truck).  Very precise and very delicate mechanism.  There is a circuit board at each end which has some sort of circuit that proportionally reduces the 0-12V track voltage to 0-3V to power the motor. It isn't just a simple resistor. I haven't had the time to try to figure out how it is designed.

I just did a Google image search for Kato Portram truck and here are some images I found.








We went a bit OT, but I hope Joe doesn't mind. 

[loco-n]

Thank you peteski, thank  you Joe, thank youm RW!!!
Franz

[JoeD]

peteski,
Could you start a new post about the Kato Portram power truck? This drive unit is of interest for many projects of small locomotives.
Thank's in advance, Franz

Don't encourage him LOL 

[peteski]

Don't encourage him LOL

No need.  I managed to answer the question with an OT post in your thread.   

[nscaler711]

Jeez if they can do that With the portrams I wonder if they will go the same route that they did with the HO P42s but in N... probably not feasible but would be pretty cool... lots of space for speakers... and added weight for pulling power...
Eh.. not going to happen I'm sure... but still a wicked cool design nonetheless.

[peteski]

Jeez if they can do that With the portrams I wonder if they will go the same route that they did with the HO P42s but in N... probably not feasible but would be pretty cool... lots of space for speakers... and added weight for pulling power...
Eh.. not going to happen I'm sure... but still a wicked cool design nonetheless.

That mechanism is very delicate - I can't imagine it being used in for example a GEVO.  Those microscopic motors aren't very robust and they don't have much torque.  Just enough to propel that small LRV.

The H0 P42 uses much stouter coreless motors with lots of torque.  Same as used in the N scale FEF3.