Steamers.... How close is good enough?

[learmoia]

Having kitbashed a few "steamers" (in both uses of the word)

You've kit bashed poo??

~Ian

[randgust]

I  think it's really important to not get hung upon never achieving perfection, but achieving some results.   One of my favorite quotes is "Perfection is the enemy of good" and that really applies here.

I've been fascinated by the little Lima 2-6-0 on the Hickory Valley Railroad since I was a kid, it ran behind my grandmothers house.  I met the engineer.  My father rode behind it.   It survived until 1938: 



When I started N scale in 1972, modeling this local logging railroad was next to impossible, but I decided to try anyway.  The Micro-trains 2-6-0 conversion to the Rapido 0-6-0 was 'close enough' and the best I could do then.   This has been the workhorse of the HVRR module since I built it in 1975, and if you come to a train show to see my modules, this is still the locomotive that RUNS, and RUNS and RUNS, by the hour if necessary.  It's on its third motor, I rebuilt the tender to 8x8 pickup, etc.   It's been in Model Railroader.



But from a modeling standpoint, it's pretty clunky.    When I got my first Atlas 2-6-0, I also went on the hunt to see if JUST MAYBE, the California State Railroad Museum Lima locomotive collection had this CN# in their drawings.  I was floored when I found it.   I got the actual blueprints, and found out it was almost a dead-on match with the Atlas chassis.

So THIS TIME, I really raised the bar.  Nearly all scratchbuilt, brass boiler, styrene cab (2 tries to get it right), etched tender, gearhead motor, and everything I could throw at it for detail and performance.   40 years later, same locomotive, everything I've learned since, including a lot of help from friends on these forums:



It's way cool, super delicate, and rarely run hard.   It's my showgirl.

I have to admit that very well be the last time I push this hard, this one was 'the one' of the build challenges for me.  But I'm still not afraid to show off the 1976 Rapido, and she runs by the hour.   "Good Enough" is great, as long as you're enjoying the journey and not afraid to try.

[mmagliaro]

Randgust:
Beautiful models - BOTH of them (consider the timeframe when the other one was made!)

I think your two models prove the point exactly.  You were very happy to have made that model BOTH TIMES, even though
the second one is far superior. 

To another point raised in here, sure it's natural to care at least a little what other people think of your work.  But that
will automatically enter into your equation of what makes you happy when you look at your models.
If you make a steam loco and are happy looking at what you've done, at least part of that happiness comes from
a feeling that you wouldn't be embarrassed to show it to somebody else.  How much that matters to you varies with
each person.  But again, if it makes you happy to have done it, it's good enough.

[mmagliaro]

There are two very relevant articles in some of the previous NTrak Steam Locomotive Addenda books that may be of help to you.

The 2010 and 2011 Steam Locomotive Addenda volumes contain pieceson Boston and Maine steam locos,
including one by Dick Gorman entitled, "Building a Credible Fleet or the Fine Art of Compromise" in the 2010 book.

[Dave V]

You've kit bashed poo??

~Ian

I was referring to the appearance of the results of the kitbash...   

[chicken45]

 With a quick decal job at least you will have hanger queens at worst .

hmm...I don't know. I've seen the queens @Ed Kapuscinski has in his basement.

[JMaurer1]

Got to go with the majority. In N scale is it so hard to get road specific prototypes, even (at times) with diesels. Fortunately, 'good enough' is almost always good enough. I model the SP so my diesels have the extra light packages (God I miss Sunrise Ent.) or they don't run. My steam locomotives all get oil bunkers and number boards...skyline casings and other mods as needed, but for the most part I don't get hung up on driver size or if the air tanks are correct (although I have moved sand and steam domes). Other than that, they are close enough.

As already stated, however, if they are good enough for you they are good enough. Most people wouldn't be able to tell you if a particular locomotive was even used by a specific road...

[randgust]

The other good-enough example I've got (from the same 70's era) is my Heisler.  This was done back in 1975-6, when Atlas introduced the Roco GP30 and the 0-6-0 switcher.   If you put the spoked switcher wheels on the diesel trucks....hmmmm.  Shorten the frame a bit, scratchbuild the superstructure... yeah, that will work.

Prototype is a 'stock' 47-ton Heisler, mine got stretched a bit, but in the end, I still had a serviceable, runnable geared steam engine that would run around 8" curves and push a string of log cars up a 4% grade.    Done.  That was way, way, way before anybody dreamed of an N scale Shay.

So, three motors, and a repaint later, it's still running after 40 years.   It went from the stock Atlas motor to a Trix U28 and now has a Kato 11-103 motor (five pole) in it, and it runs great although I chew up a set of those red Roco gears about every five years.   Yeah, it has NINE FOOT truck wheelbase, so it's been nicknamed "Bigfoot" on the module.   It has huge flanges, oversize rods, and is generally oversize.    But it still runs really well, pulls like crazy, and is electrically reliable.   This and the Rapido 2-6-0 were the genesis of every custom build I've ever done in N since then.   The Heisler was the first locomotive I ever scratchbuilt a boiler and superstructure for.



I'm still designing what I consider to be the 'perfect' 47-ton Heisler accurately, and I wish I could get the parts I need to think reproducible kit instead of unique build.  Right now the only way to get spoked wheels on a 48" wheelbase is to cannibalize an Atlas Shay and start from that frame, and it's darn tough and darn expensive.  So it's still amazing how 'good enough' remains 'GOOD ENOUGH'!   It amazes me how the siderods still sell it visually and how people react to it at shows.   It's a personal challenge to build a better one someday, it will happen, but I'll still keep "Bigfoot" around.

[peteski]

The other good-enough example I've got (from the same 70's era) is my Heisler.  This was done back in 1975-6, when Atlas introduced the Roco GP30 and the 0-6-0 switcher.   If you put the spoked switcher wheels on the diesel trucks....hmmmm.  Shorten the frame a bit, scratchbuild the superstructure... yeah, that will work.

Prototype is a 'stock' 47-ton Heisler, mine got stretched a bit, but in the end, I still had a serviceable, runnable geared steam engine that would run around 8" curves and push a string of log cars up a 4% grade.    Done.  That was way, way, way before anybody dreamed of an N scale Shay.

So, three motors, and a repaint later, it's still running after 40 years.   It went from the stock Atlas motor to a Trix U28 and now has a Kato 11-103 motor (five pole) in it, and it runs great although I chew up a set of those red Roco gears about every five years.   Yeah, it has NINE FOOT truck wheelbase, so it's been nicknamed "Bigfoot" on the module.   It has huge flanges, oversize rods, and is generally oversize.    But it still runs really well, pulls like crazy, and is electrically reliable.   This and the Rapido 2-6-0 were the genesis of every custom build I've ever done in N since then.   The Heisler was the first locomotive I ever scratchbuilt a boiler and superstructure for.

Using guts from a diesel model to make a model of a steam Shay - what an ingenious and innovative way of thinking!  I love it!  It's good enough for me!

[Cajonpassfan]

Well, another thought. Sometimes it's not what's right with the model, but what's wrong. If I can eliminate things that are obviously out of place, like a signature USRA sand dome on what is supposed to be a Santa Fe pacific , I'm more accepting of a generic designs, even if other less obvious features aren't quite right. Making it all quite right means going to the Max, and most of us don't have the skills or patience to do that
Otto K.

[nscaleSPF2]

As someone who has kitbashed a few steam locomotives over the last 2 or 3 years, let me add some philosophy that kept me going.

Do the best possible job you can, strive to achieve the results that Max does, at the same time knowing that you will never be able to.  (A man's reach must exceed his grasp...)

And most importantly, stop when the build ceases to be fun.


-----------------------------------
Hang in there, David V.

[mmagliaro]

What Jim said is probably the single most important thing yet (and no, not the nice plug with my name in it... har har...
but THANK YOU!)

I mean the part about: "most importantly, stop when the build ceases to be fun."

Believe me, these engine projects can become all-consuming.  While it may be extremely satisfying to finish one that is
uber-detailed, there is a lot of sacrifice involved.  How many hours of running trains, building scenery, relaxing with a structure kit,
etc, is one willing to give up in order to put a zillion hours into one locomotive?  Is it really that important?

This made me think of an important piece of advice to offer here.   Build the whole engine to a "certain level" of detail and get it running
well.  Then go back and iteratively decide how much more time you want to really invest in it.
You can even see that I do that with even my most intensely detailed projects.  My first "pass" is always to build all the "functional" stuff - the things that it will HAVE to have in order to run.  After that, lay on some major features like domes and such.  Then lay on smaller
features. Then tiny features and piping.   So at any point, you can stop, say, "It looks good, I'm not having fun anymore",
and you'll have a complete functional engine.   This, as opposed to killing yourself making just the engine or just the tender or just the boiler to extreme detail, getting sick of all the time it's taking, and walking away with nothing.

[garethashenden]

I'll just add to what Max was saying, it applies to most hobby projects not just steam engines. Be willing to walk away and take breaks. If you're struggling with something it's much better to not finish it and to go do something else than it is to fight with it and get angry. Struggling with a project that's no going how you had hoped will lead to less satisfactory results and an unwillingness to do it again.

[mmagliaro]

I'll just add to what Max was saying, it applies to most hobby projects not just steam engines. Be willing to walk away and take breaks. If you're struggling with something it's much better to not finish it and to go do something else than it is to fight with it and get angry. Struggling with a project that's no going how you had hoped will lead to less satisfactory results and an unwillingness to do it again.

Oh boy oh boy is THIS ever true!   I don't know how many times I have been interrupted on my major projects due to work or family obligations (and this 0-6-0 is no exception), only to come back to it after a few days and suddenly realize that in the "time off", I thought of a much better way to make or correct something.  I always end up being greatful that I didn't  just maniacally beaver away on it incessantly.  Breaks are important.

[chicken45]

Do the best possible job you can, strive to achieve the results that Max does, at the same time knowing that you will never be able to.  (A man's reach must exceed his grasp...)

Max Magliaro- making other modelers look bad since 19xx! ^(TM)

But seriously, I'm going to try to make Max blush here because he deserves it! He's one of those guys who is in it to advance N scale. Super talented, super nice, super humble, super supportive, always shares his knowledge, and goes out of his way to encourage others...and I hate him for it!