Track spikes.

[ednadolski]

One of the things I never cared for on the p:87 tieplates are the half-etched spike "heads".   They don't look anything like an actual spike, and  if you want to install a spike then you have to find a tieplate with a hole.

Ed

[Steve S]

Jon ( @central.vermont  ),
Being a detail-oriented N-scale modeler, I still would like to experiment with adding tie plates to my hand-laid trackage, and Proto87 Stores makes them for N-scale code 40 rail, but after ordering a batch of them, their actual size (about the size of a flake of dandruff) has put me off from using them, both from a time-consuming aspect, AND a they-may-just-be-too-damned-small-to-see aspect.  So, the jury is out for me, and like Ed Nadolski, I believe that I may end up etching a sheet of them that is a bit thicker than the Proto87 Stores versions and closer to actual prototype dimensions.

I don't model N scale, but for HO scale I was considering the following. (see pic below.)  Instead of gluing individual tie plates down, you could design them so that there's a thin 'web' connecting the plates that keeps them properly spaced for the ties.  Gluing an entire strip down should be easier than doing it one at a time.   This works fine for straight track because the ties are uniformly spaced.

Curved track is a problem because the ties are fanned out and the spacing varies.   You could create a jig that holds ties properly spaced in a straight line.  Glue down the tie plate strips on each side.  Then snip every other web on one side.  Do the same on the other side, but shift the cuts over by one tie so that you're basically creating flex track.

I have to admit that this might be exceedingly difficult in N scale.  On a large layout it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble. But for a small layout it might be worth experimenting.

Steve S

[tom mann]

Good idea @Steve S . However, even in HO I think the ME product is great:



I have a book on trackwork in O scale.  I think at that scale there are advantages of individual tieplates and spikes.

[Mark5]

Useless trivia: the old Railcraft spikes (circa 1970s) had much smaller heads on them that the stuff Micro-Engineering now sells.

I was heavily disappointed with the ME spikes that I bought earlier this century.

Mark

[robert3985]

Useless trivia: the old Railcraft spikes (circa 1970s) had much smaller heads on them that the stuff Micro-Engineering now sells.

I was heavily disappointed with the ME spikes that I bought earlier this century.

Mark

Just to graphically show this...

Photo (1) - Atlas C55 N-scale flex and Railcraft/ME C55 N-scale flex side-by-side:


Lucky for me, I stocked up on bundles of Railcraft C55 before their injection molds wore out.  Nowadays, I use new ME C55 in the background and old Railcraft C55 in the foreground...and new ME C40 with sanded down inner spikeheads for mainline center sidings. 

Photo (2) - Here's a photo of old Railcraft/ME C55 at Echo Curve painted, ballasted and weathered:


I was also heavily disappointed when ME decided to increase the size of their spikeheads and make them more uniform.  A bad move to the dark side...

However, ME flex is still the most prototypical looking flex for N-scale, even if their spikeheads are bigger and more uniform than they used to be...They are still much smaller than Atlas C55's tie nubbins.


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ednadolski]

I don't model N scale, but for HO scale I was considering the following. (see pic below.)  Instead of gluing individual tie plates down, you could design them so that there's a thin 'web' connecting the plates that keeps them properly spaced for the ties.  Gluing an entire strip down should be easier than doing it one at a time.   This works fine for straight track because the ties are uniformly spaced.

JMHO, that could be one of those things that sounds relatively straightforward in principle, but in practice turns out to be a challenge.  Even on straight track, tie spacings can have significant variations.  The positioning of the rail necessarily follows the tie plates, so once the tie plates go down it becomes almost impossible to adjust the rail position where needed.  That said, I think P:87 Stores offers a jig that can be used to build straight track in various lengths.  I've never used it myself, so I have no clue how well it works, but perhaps that would work for you. As always, it's a good idea to get a few parts and try to build some test track.  Andy is active in the handlaidtrack Yahoo group, so that is an option for getting more info on that.

Ed

[central.vermont]

Gang,
Everyone has been very helpful for me on this subject but I have a question about the ties. Before I go and order switch ties who's are the best? Fast tracks list their switch ties of 500 for 19.95 and Proto87 list their ties of 500 for 17.95. Other than the obvious cost difference is either one better than the other?
Thanks, Jon

[Steve S]

JMHO, that could be one of those things that sounds relatively straightforward in principle, but in practice turns out to be a challenge.

Yeah, especially in N scale.  This would be much better suited for larger scales where you can appreciate the added detail. 

The positioning of the rail necessarily follows the tie plates, so once the tie plates go down it becomes almost impossible to adjust the rail position where needed.

If I'm not mistaken, you can apply the Pliobond to the strip of plates, let it dry, and then lay it on the ties.  You can use a rail to keep it properly aligned and in gauge.  Then apply a hot soldering iron to it to set the glue.


 

As always, it's a good idea to get a few parts and try to build some test track.

The problem is getting a "few" parts when it comes to photo-etching.  Some places have a minimum order, or they have a hefty setup fee so getting just one or two sheets is pretty expensive.  I wish it were a more user-friendly process.

Steve S

[robert3985]

Gang,
Everyone has been very helpful for me on this subject but I have a question about the ties. Before I go and order switch ties who's are the best? Fast tracks list their switch ties of 500 for 19.95 and Proto87 list their ties of 500 for 17.95. Other than the obvious cost difference is either one better than the other?
Thanks, Jon

I have several thousand of old ME/RC ties pre-stained in both standard lengths and switch lengths.  I wasn't too impressed with their quality, but when laid down, their imperfections in my ultra closeups have made them my favorites.  I've ordered from P:87 Stores and Andy's switch ties are quite uniform, with a fine, close grain.  I am about 90% certain that either Proto87 Stores ties or Fast Tracks ties would be equally excellent.  I would go with the cheapest and call it a day...

I would also take the extra step of drilling pilot holes (just slightly undersized) in the ties after the rails are down on your turnouts to keep the ties from splitting.  The size of the hole would depend on the dimensions of the etched spike you decide to go with and frankly, I would go with the scale-sized HO P:87 Stores spikes, which Andy calls "cosmetic" if I remember correctly since they're too short to really hold anything down.  I don't use spikes, and I use more PCB ties than most turnout builders use to make sure the turnouts are robust and stay DOWN (my layout is portable) especially under the frog and on either side of your headblocks.  I rely on gap-filling CA to do the trick under the PCB ties, then later the ballast will really sock everything down.  Sooo...I'd think of the scale HO spikes as a detail feature rather than a functional feature and worry about the spikehead size instead of the length of the spike shaft.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ednadolski]

This would be much better suited for larger scales where you can appreciate the added detail. 

Hence my ongoing side interest in Proto:48.   Nowadays you can get some pretty nice looking tieplates and turnout details from Jim Lincoln's Shapeways store. 

you can apply the Pliobond to the strip of plates, let it dry, and then lay it on the ties.

To me that sounds like the tricky part.  It could be hard to handle and position strips of tieplates with the needed accuracy.  The longer the strips, the harder to handle without inadvertent twisting and bending.   I don't use Pliobond much, but I am not so sure how easy it is to apply in a thin, uniform coat.

I also noted in your concept drawing that the webs between the tieplates appear *very* thin -- close to the thickness of the metal.  This could make it tricky to separate strips from the fret without further bending and twisting.

You can use a rail to keep it properly aligned and in gauge.  Then apply a hot soldering iron to it to set the glue.

That sounds like it actually needs two applications of the Pliobond:  one between the tieplates and the ties, and a second on the bottom of the rail to hold it to the tieplates.  Is that correct?

The problem is getting a "few" parts when it comes to photo-etching.  Some places have a minimum order, or they have a hefty setup fee so getting just one or two sheets is pretty expensive.  I wish it were a more user-friendly process.

True, doing anything leading-edge does come at a price.   The cost in time is usually a lot more than the monetary outlay. 

Ed

[ednadolski]

I would also take the extra step of drilling pilot holes (just slightly undersized) in the ties after the rails are down on your turnouts to keep the ties from splitting.  The size of the hole would depend on the dimensions of the etched spike you decide to go with and frankly, I would go with the scale-sized HO P:87 Stores spikes

The P:87 spikes are apprx. 0.010" square in cross-section, so you would need about a #87 bit or even smaller.  At that small size I am not sure a pilot hole is really needed.   What concerns me more is, how well the spike would hold in just the wood tie?

I'm thinking over the idea of a laser-cut tie strip made from 1/32" baltic birch plywood.   This could have spike holes cut by the laser as a single dot, which would basically be the kerf size of the beam (about 0.010").   If the holes are cut to half the depth of the plywood, that would leave enough material for the spikes to 'bite' into and hold securely.  With a prototypical pattern of four spikes per tie, this could be sufficient to hold the rail in gauge without resorting to Pliobond or PCB ties.  It would definitely be pricey, since the cost depends on the linear length of the cut -- and N scale takes a lot of cut length to make a tie strip.

Now I just have to go figure out how to make a .dxf file for the laser cutter...    

Ed

[Mark5]

Just to graphically show this...

Lucky for me, I stocked up on bundles of Railcraft C55 before their injection molds wore out.  Nowadays, I use new ME C55 in the background and old Railcraft C55 in the foreground...and new ME C40 with sanded down inner spikeheads for mainline center sidings. 

I was also heavily disappointed when ME decided to increase the size of their spikeheads and make them more uniform.  A bad move to the dark side...

However, ME flex is still the most prototypical looking flex for N-scale, even if their spikeheads are bigger and more uniform than they used to be...They are still much smaller than Atlas C55's tie nubbins.


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Bob, I was referring to the spikes that they (Railcraft vs what ME sells today) sold for hand laying - not the flex track.

Mark

[robert3985]

Bob, I was referring to the spikes that they (Railcraft vs what ME sells today) sold for hand laying - not the flex track.

Mark

Ohhhhh....I see (now).

ME small spikes where never an option with me.  I've known they were way oversized since the mid-80's...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore