Author Topic: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose  (Read 9879 times)

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BCR751

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2016, 06:34:57 PM »
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Great job on the caboose, Craig.  The roof bracing was a good idea.  I wish I had thought of that with the BCR ones I built.  Never did get the roofs to sit right.

Doug

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2016, 07:05:34 PM »
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Thanks Doug.

It's almost done. Just a few decals and some grabs and then I'll do some decent photography so that you can see all my mistakes. Haha.

Eventually I'll build another one to paint in the yellow scheme. It won't hide my mistakes like the dark blue.

Did you scratch build your BCR models?  I've got three of the Kaslo kits nearing completion but they were quite expensive. I think this ones cost me about $5 (trucks, paint and decals not included). 

Craig
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 07:48:14 PM by craigolio1 »

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2016, 09:54:27 PM »
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Only that the brakes are applied, so the car cant move...  :D

In all seriousness, great job building a unique prototype!

D'oh.

Thanks!

BCR751

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2016, 10:41:10 PM »
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Did you scratch build your BCR models? Craig

Yes, I did.  I built three including the Tumbler Sub. catenary inspection car shown.  However, since I didn't reinforce the roof end with a second piece of styrene, you can see what happened.  I think it had something to do with the gluing process but I can't be sure.  To make matters worse, this happened AFTER the model was completed.

Doug


craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2016, 11:39:47 AM »
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Still that's a great looking model! 

Craig

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2016, 06:08:20 PM »
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I applied the final safety markings and handrails. After a sponge bath and dull coat she'll be done.

Craig


craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2020, 10:38:18 PM »
+3
I’ve come back to this project as the opportunity to do lighted markers has finally become a possibility for me. For reference, here is a pic of the prototype:



And my model:



The lights I’m modelling are those construction barrier lights hanging on the end. Until recently I had no idea how I would ever model them, but I’ve always wanted to. One because they are so small, and two because they would be flashing and who doesn’t love flashing lights, right?!!!

I started casting LEDs into ditch lights and such way back when Intermountain released their SD40-2W. I got a CN model and cast porch mounted ditch lights.

Sorry for terrible shot. It’s the only pic I have.



Later I did a more complicated install with pairs of LEDs cast into stands on both ends of this BC Rail CRS20:



All of those LEDs were 0402 which are really small, but would be way over sized for this install. The light I’m modelling is only about 6” across.

Two things happened that brought this project back to the forefront. First I found 0201 LEDs which are TINY!  I successfully soldered them for the first time here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=48102.0

The second was when @CNR5529 produced THESE for me on his Photon!:



Yes, those are scale sized construction barrier lights.

I created a mold for the master:



And cast an LED into it:



When finished it looked like this, sorry about my giant gross fingers:



The next step was to work on some circuitry. The first piece is the constant lighting circuit that @peteski designed for me a few years ago here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29654.15

With constant lighting done, I needed a way to flash the LEDs. Construction barrier lights never flash at the exact same frequency. They always seem to be just a little out of phase and this was a feature that I wanted to have. I searched for led flasher circuits and finally stumbled on a CRAZY simple circuit on YouTube:

/>
The Coles Notes version of it is that you use an NPN transistor and feed positive voltage into the emitter side. As the capacitor charges it eventually reaches the break down voltage and allows the transistor to conduct, lighting the LED until the charge in the capacitor drops below the break down voltage, and the cycle is repeated repeated. Aside from the LED it has three components...   doesn’t get any simpler than that!  Small is good as I have to jam two of these circuits and the keep alive inside this little caboose.

I experimented with cap and resistor values and eventually settled on a 470uF cap with a 2.7k resistor. I used this combo as it created the strobe effect/frequency I wanted and I have some 470uF tantalum caps that are tiny. At first I was using different values of resistors for each circuit but I found that they had an effect on each other which would cause anomalies like different decay rates, perfectly timed alternate flashing, one LED being lit solid etc. The reasons for this are beyond me so I just kept plugging in values until I found something that worked. Eventually I ended up with a 2.7k resistor on one circuit, and a 3 LED series combo that created the perfect effect where the LEDs go in and out of phase about every 30 seconds. Turns out, that three led combo was 2.7k!  So I used two 2.7k resistors. The reason for the different frequencies of flashing must be due to the variance in tolerances.

Here it is on a bread board:

/>
And connected to my cast lights:

/>
Here is the final design I settled on, with values:



Next I had to package it. I didn’t want to make a board. I wanted to make it even more compact so I did something similar to the keep alive circuit, and built it around the cap:



Next I wired the three circuits together into one complete bundle:

The bottom side shows the four connections for the LEDs



And the top view shows the keep alive circuit piggy backed on top:



I covered the whole thing in silicon to insulate it.

That’s where I am so far. The next step is to model the mounts, paint/install the LEDs on the caboose, and install power pick up in the trucks.

Craig












« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 11:05:48 PM by craigolio1 »

CNR5529

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2020, 11:04:29 PM »
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That was definitively one of the smaller successful prints to date... Well done with the LED wizardry!
Because why not...

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2020, 11:07:09 PM »
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That was definitively one of the smaller successful prints to date... Well done with the LED wizardry!

Wouldn't have been possible without that print!  Too bad I have to paint it and no doubt reduce the level of detail.

Craig

peteski

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2020, 11:16:48 PM »
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Wow Craig, this is impressive. Especially the way you embedded those tiny 0201 LEDs into the lamps.

That flasher circuit is also very clever - nice find!  It can also make a good FRED simulator.  And if you still end up haivng problems fitting that circuit inot your model, you could use SMD transistor and resistors for even smaller circuit.  :)
. . . 42 . . .

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2020, 11:39:39 PM »
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Wow Craig, this is impressive. Especially the way you embedded those tiny 0201 LEDs into the lamps.

That flasher circuit is also very clever - nice find!  It can also make a good FRED simulator.  And if you still end up haivng problems fitting that circuit inot your model, you could use SMD transistor and resistors for even smaller circuit.  :)

Thanks Peteski, and good call. I do have the appropriate SMD resistors but the guy in the video recommended at least 1/8 watt. All I had were 1/4 watt so that’s what I used. A smaller transistor would be a huge help as it stands off the side like. I bought 4 of the transistors the fellow had in his list and this one was the only one I could get to work with this result on the DCC track power. Now that I know what transistor that is, future purchase will be SMD for sure.

And yes this would make a very good FRED circuit too. I hooked up a 5K trim pot for a time just to play and it made us super easy to dial in exactly the type of flash that was desired. In my case I had no room for trim pots in the caboose but if I were doing this in a box car I would consider using one, and then set and forget.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 11:42:37 PM by craigolio1 »

peteski

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2020, 12:23:11 AM »
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Thanks Peteski, and good call. I do have the appropriate SMD resistors but the guy in the video recommended at least 1/8 watt. All I had were 1/4 watt so that’s what I used. A smaller transistor would be a huge help as it stands off the side like. I bought 4 of the transistors the fellow had in his list and this one was the only one I could get to work with this result on the DCC track power. Now that I know what transistor that is, future purchase will be SMD for sure.

And yes this would make a very good FRED circuit too. I hooked up a 5K trim pot for a time just to play and it made us super easy to dial in exactly the type of flash that was desired. In my case I had no room for trim pots in the caboose but if I were doing this in a box car I would consider using one, and then set and forget.

Craig, I think you meant that you have 1/8W and 1/4W should be used.  What SMD size resistors do you have?
Here are resistor power ratings by their size:
0603 - 0.1W
0805 - 0.125W
1206 - 0.25W
1210 - 0.25W
2010 - 0.5W
2512 - 1W

As for finding a transistor which will work well in this circuit, you should be looking for one which has a low Emitter-Base voltage (VEBO).  That is one of the specifications provided in transistor datasheets.  If you go to website like Digikey and use a filter to narrow down your search, you should be able to choose the Emitter-Base voltage as one of the search criteria (along with SMD type packaging).  Find one which has VEBO of around 6-7V

Here is some reference material about transistor specs: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-4/transistor-ratings-packages-bjt/

As far as the resistor rating goes, that guy seems not to have any formal electronic training and his recommendations are rather loose.  If you continuously hooked up 12V across a 2700 ohm resistor, it would dissipate (P=V2/R)  or (12*12)/2700 = 0.054W  Using even a 0.1W resistor would be fine.  Especially considering that the resistor will be conducing the full current small portion of the time.

What worries me a bit is lack of current limiting for the tiny 0201 LED. Those are rated 5mA, but when the transistor breaks down and starts conducting, it will send unlimited current from the charged capacitor (which will have as much voltage stored as the breakdown voltage of the transistor was, or probably around 6-7V) through that poor tiny LED.  You could install a current limiting resistor between transistor's collector and the LED's anode. I would give that a try to protect that LED.
Shooting from the hip, I would add a 56 or 68 ohm resistor (0.1W should be good) between the collector and LED's anode. It might affect the flash rate slightly.
. . . 42 . . .

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2020, 06:24:10 AM »
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Craig, I think you meant that you have 1/8W and 1/4W should be used.  What SMD size resistors do you have?
Here are resistor power ratings by their size:
0603 - 0.1W
0805 - 0.125W
1206 - 0.25W
1210 - 0.25W
2010 - 0.5W
2512 - 1W

As for finding a transistor which will work well in this circuit, you should be looking for one which has a low Emitter-Base voltage (VEBO).  That is one of the specifications provided in transistor datasheets.  If you go to website like Digikey and use a filter to narrow down your search, you should be able to choose the Emitter-Base voltage as one of the search criteria (along with SMD type packaging).  Find one which has VEBO of around 6-7V

Here is some reference material about transistor specs: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-4/transistor-ratings-packages-bjt/

As far as the resistor rating goes, that guy seems not to have any formal electronic training and his recommendations are rather loose.  If you continuously hooked up 12V across a 2700 ohm resistor, it would dissipate (P=V2/R)  or (12*12)/2700 = 0.054W  Using even a 0.1W resistor would be fine.  Especially considering that the resistor will be conducing the full current small portion of the time.

What worries me a bit is lack of current limiting for the tiny 0201 LED. Those are rated 5mA, but when the transistor breaks down and starts conducting, it will send unlimited current from the charged capacitor (which will have as much voltage stored as the breakdown voltage of the transistor was, or probably around 6-7V) through that poor tiny LED.  You could install a current limiting resistor between transistor's collector and the LED's anode. I would give that a try to protect that LED.
Shooting from the hip, I would add a 56 or 68 ohm resistor (0.1W should be good) between the collector and LED's anode. It might affect the flash rate slightly.

Thanks!  I was wondering about current limiting for the LED. I experimented with larger current limiting resistors but that had a major effect on the flash rate. I’ll try a smaller on as you suggest. I certainly don’t want to be replacing these due to failure.

Craig

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2020, 03:04:19 PM »
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@peteski , I added a 56 ohm resister as you suggested with no noticeable difference in the flash.

craigolio1

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Re: First time scratch build - N scale BC Hydro Rail caboose
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2020, 09:02:30 PM »
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I was working on the circuit again today and after watching a video of construction barrier lights (yes there is such a video) I decided that the flash rate was too fast.  I tried adding the same amount a capacitance in parallel and it worked. Just right.

I found a simple way to add them on by piggy backing them on to the existing ones in the circuit.



Wait what? Why is one of the caps black? Oh yeah that’s because IT CAUGHT FIRE. I used 16v caps and as discussed in a previous thread about such caps, this one clearly was not up to the task. So after testing a few other caps I have reassembled the circuit and it’s been flashing away at the right rate, and NOT on fire for several hours. I’m lucky it wasn’t in the model, and that it failed outward from the rest of the components.

Craig.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 09:06:29 PM by craigolio1 »