N scale coach match for Private car "Tolani"?

[cjm413]

Yes.  And now that I think about it, I initially replaced the Con-Cor couplers with Unimates but found that they didn't couple to the Kato knuckle couplers on my Kato "Super Chief" cars. Then I ordered and tried several other knuckle couplers in the C-C trucks, before finally giving up and installing the MTL trucks (which I had on older Con-Cor coaches that I was no longer using.) 

IIRC, apart from the useless coupler, the truck and wheels were nicely done.  I've never tried the knuckle coupler that Con-Cor is now using.  Does anyone know whether it will mate with a Kato knuckle coupler?

Regards,
Ron

Con-Cor also sold dummy knuckle couplers with the T-shank as a direct replacement for Rapido couplers.   I can "lift and couple" them with a Kato coupler, but I haven't had a chance to operate them together.

[arbomambo]

Con-Cor makes what you're looking for - the Budd Twin Window coach, item #429101/#041476.

Scroll down the page at:
http://www.con-cor.com/NBuddpage1.html

They also offer an observation car (#430101/#041501) and dome car (#450101/#041526) that are based on ATSF prototypes.

Regards,
Ron

"AFAIK, the only Kato models based on ATSF cars are those in the Super Chief and El Capitan sets, and the earlier 'Pine' series sleeper. I'm unsure about the coach #3082 that Jagged Ben mentioned. Their other corrugated side models are, at best, stand-ins for SF cars."


the coach is, indeed, an ATSF prototype, but the round end observation is not...the ConCor PS dome is good for the Santa Fe, but the Kato version is far superior.

Kato also made the smoothside "Valley" series sleeper...they even released a 4 pack in Santa Fe: 2 in the early version two-tone gray, and 2 in the short-lived 'shadow line' paint...one of these, painted in the dark gray scheme would be perfect for a post 1960 San Francisco Chief
Bruce

[arbomambo]

"AFAIK, the only Kato models based on ATSF cars are those in the Super Chief and El Capitan sets, and the earlier 'Pine' series sleeper. I'm unsure about the coach #3082 that Jagged Ben mentioned. Their other corrugated side models are, at best, stand-ins for SF cars."


the coach is, indeed, an ATSF prototype, but the round end observation is not...the ConCor PS dome is good for the Santa Fe, but the Kato version is far superior.
the CB&Q Kato sleeper is a good representation of the Pine Series sleepers, WITH skirt removal and/or modification (not all of the ATSF Pine series sleepers had their skirts completely removed.
Kato also made the smoothside "Valley" series sleeper...they even released a 4 pack in Santa Fe: 2 in the early version two-tone gray, and 2 in the short-lived 'shadow line' paint...one of these, painted in the dark gray scheme would be perfect for a post 1960 San Francisco Chief
Bruce

[jagged ben]

Kato also made the smoothside "Valley" series sleeper...they even released a 4 pack in Santa Fe: 2 in the early version two-tone gray, and 2 in the short-lived 'shadow line' paint...one of these, painted in the dark gray scheme would be perfect for a post 1960 San Francisco Chief
Bruce

Been trying to get my hands on a Valley series sleeper, too.  Centralia has also made some of these.

The 'shadow line' paint scheme looks silver to me.   What do you mean by the dark gray scheme?  And do you have any definitive resources on which of those paint schemes is appropriate for the San Francisco Chief? 

According to my research the Valley series was used on the SF Chief in '63 and '64.  Mind you, I'm trying to model a train which was discontinued before I was born.

[jmlaboda]

The 'shadow line' paint scheme looks silver to me.   What do you mean by the dark gray scheme?  And do you have any definitive resources on which of those paint schemes is appropriate for the San Francisco Chief?

Depends on the date.  The silver Shadowline scheme was used fairly early on (mid- to late-40s) so that the cars would match corrugated cars.  Santa Fe later was struck dumb (like SP) (from 1953 - on) and painted the cars in dark gray colors like many of their lightweight head-end cars.

[Ron McF]

the coach is, indeed, an ATSF prototype, but the round end observation is not...

Are you certain about that, Bruce?  Con-Cor has offered several round-end lightweight observation cars to my knowledge including a smooth-sided model from the early '70s, a rebadged Rivarossi car that is similar to the Kato Super Chief car, and this one (which I was referring to):


I believe this model is based on the "Navajo" from the 1937 Super Chief:


I'd forgotten about the Valley series cars, even though I have one.

Can you provide any further information on the prototype for the Con-Cor coach? I've recently ordered the "Coach, Smoker and Chair Car" book by McCall but I'm still waiting for it to arrive from the USA.

Regards,
Ron

[arbomambo]

I stand corrected!



I bought an undec ConCor version, hoping I could use it as the observation used on the El Pasoan for a short while...not the same type at all, but it seems as if it's an exact match for the "Navajo".

the progression of paint schemes for Valley sleepers went like this:
delivered in the two tone gray scheme that Kato did...4 sliver stripes, 'pullman' letterboards etc...
then some, not all, were painted in the shadow line silver scheme, until 1952 and a little after...
back into the two-tone gray scheme, with only two silver stripes, bordering the windows, and Santa Fe in the letterboards.
then, some, not all, painted into the dark gray scheme, silver roof and silver undersides...sometime after 1959-60...in the Richmond shops...

I've also ordered the chair, smoker, etc. book...if it's anything like the others then it's a winner!
Bruce

[Upstate Gator]

Bruce,
It's a great book. Highly recommend it.
Ben

[superchief]

just saw the REAL tail car "Navajo" about a month ago at the Colorado RR museum, did not know it was there, wanted to see some trains while in Denver working, it turn out to be the THOMAS weekend and was crowded, but I also got to see a working K-27!!!!!! wish I could remember how to upload a photo Gordon

[jmlaboda]

Wonder if the model could be used to build ATSF 3245, a Budd coach observation car?  Windows from two models spliced into the side appropriately?  Would be a great model to have behind a late-era Santa Fe doodlebug...

[Cajonpassfan]

just saw the REAL tail car "Navajo" about a month ago at the Colorado RR museum, did not know it was there, wanted to see some trains while in Denver working, it turn out to be the THOMAS weekend and was crowded, but I also got to see a working K-27!!!!!! wish I could remember how to upload a photo Gordon

Gordon, sorry I missed you! We were there in late September visiting kids and grandkids, and it looked like this. Just missed Thomas and the crowds, dang.
Note blue skies please 
Best, Otto K.

[jagged ben]

the progression of paint schemes for Valley sleepers went like this:
delivered in the two tone gray scheme that Kato did...4 sliver stripes, 'pullman' letterboards etc...
then some, not all, were painted in the shadow line silver scheme, until 1952 and a little after...
back into the two-tone gray scheme, with only two silver stripes, bordering the windows, and Santa Fe in the letterboards.
then, some, not all, painted into the dark gray scheme, silver roof and silver undersides...sometime after 1959-60...in the Richmond shops...

Thanks!  Now that I look again at one picture I have (1960s but otherwise date unknown), there's a blurry car at the end of the train, where a Valley Series car would have been, which could definitely be this:
http://rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-pleval-jpa.jpg

Bummer that this scheme hasn't been done by Kato or Centralia.  Someone just posted a bunch of water damaged Centralia cars on eBay but I'm just not sure I can trust on buying one of those with the intention to repaint it.  (And does anyone make decals?)

[jmlaboda]

(And does anyone make decals?)

I wonder if you might be able to use the Microscale set for lettering the two-tone gray cars to do the solid gray scheme.  The set is #60-832.