DecalPRO® for car side decals?

[SandyEggoJake]

www.pulsarprofx.com   Anyone try this yet for custom dry transfers for say boxcar sides?  On it's surface, would seem viable alt to an ALPS, no?

[Chris333]

Wish they would show you how it works. Even the video skips right to "hey here is your print"

[peteski]

www.pulsarprofx.com   Anyone try this yet for custom dry transfers for say boxcar sides?  On it's surface, would seem viable alt to an ALPS, no?

This has been mentioned several times on the Alps groups. It is much more complicated process than Alps printing.

[SandyEggoJake]

Granted - more complex than ALPS.  And so not ideal for one offs, I suspect.  But as ALPS is 10+ yr old tech, it makes me nervous to buy an old used machine... so I'm looking towards the future.

I'm seeking a solution for highest quality, N scale fidelity,y but suitable for extremely limited edition releases (say only 25 +/- 10 per paint scheme). 

For me the ideal solution would be resolution of pad, cost and simplicity of Laser, white ink of ALPS, and ease of application of waterslide (but would be willing to step up to dry transfer like what this claims if at a similar price per car).

Would seem the resolution is gated by your laser printer, no?  So with a hi-fi laser printer prices dropping, might one now be able to obtain resolution comparable to pad printing?  Or is this just my wishful thinking?

[peteski]

For me the ideal solution would be resolution of pad, cost and simplicity of Laser, white ink of ALPS, and ease of application of waterslide (but would be willing to step up to dry transfer like what this claims if at a similar price per car).

Would seem the resolution is gated by your laser printer, no?  So with a hi-fi laser printer prices dropping, might one now be able to obtain resolution comparable to pad printing?  Or is this just my wishful thinking?

Keep on dreaming... 

The elephant in the room is the need to be able to overlay layers of ink (white first, then CYMK inks on top). If you just want white decals then some laser printer have white ink cartridges (usually replacing black).  Then there are solvent-based ink jet printers like the one Micro-Trains is using more and more to fully decorate their car sides. That printer can overlay inks just like Alps. But those printers and their consumables cost a lot of money.  Alps was a consumer-grade printer with a consumer affordable price.

The other problem is that both laser and ink jets produce images with fuzzy edges. Alps produces razor-sharp image edges which even with only 600 dpi resolution look crisper than much higher res. laser or ink jet printers.

But you are also right that Alps is old (actually closer to 20 years old) and out of production. Consumables will be getting scarce soon (since nobody stepped in for making ink refills).  I wouldn't want to jump on the Alps bandwagon at this time myself.

I've been an active member of couple of Alps groups (with over 4000 members) and the questions and wants you posed get asked there regularly. None of us have found that ideal and affordable solution yet.

I think that the optimal solution is to be able to create a print-ready artwork and have one of many custom decal manufacturers (who use Alps printers) to print them for you. The artwork prep is what costs the most when doing custom decals.  Printing a one-of decal from print-ready artwork should be quite affordable.

[Chris333]

I think real dry transfers are made by silk screening.

[peteski]

I think real dry transfers are made by silk screening.

IIRC, it is more like a photoetching or a process similar to development the old fashioned photographs. It is a chemical process involving photo-sensitive media.

[SandyEggoJake]

While certainly no expert, I think there are element of both in traditional production of dry transfer.  A few month back I trade emails with Rail Graphics about doing some N scale customs.  Even as they print at 2400 DPI, they suggested their screens can not reliably "hold" a font of less than 5” scale N lettering  (0.8 mm nominal).  Clearly such will not quite cut it for say N scale car data blocks, so they declined my RFP.   

Folks with ALPS printers were willing to give it a go, but as I understand it, ALPS results are more on the order of 600 dpi, with higher resolution somehow "simulated".

As full 2400x2400 color lasers are very reasonable now, it would seem the DecalPRO on a modern laser may allow for better resolution than ALPS.

Would love to hear from someone that has actually used it for N or Z scale....

[peteski]

Folks with ALPS printers were willing to give it a go, but as I understand it, ALPS results are more on the order of 600 dpi, with higher resolution somehow "simulated".

Yes, that is true - Alps print head has thermal printing elements with a 600 dpi resolution and the 2400 dpi spec of the3 certainmodels are not really applicable for printing small objects.   But because of the extreme printout sharpness I have printed legible (under magnificaton) lettering in a 5x5 matrix of print elements (sort of like dot-matrix printers print). That would make those letters around 0.009". Your 0.8mm size lettering can easily be done on Alps.

[SandyEggoJake]

Yes, I have no doubt an ALPS can do 5” scale N lettering  (0.8 mm nominal).

But I'm seeking something that can do 1" and 2" scale lettering with PAD printing like resolution.  Your 0.009" works out to about 1.5" scale font, yes?  What model was this on and was it with the optional "Photo Dye sub kit", which attempts to mimic 2400 dpi?

Not bad, though wouldn't one get massive pixelation using a 5x5 matrix font?  And worse, I would also expect a boxcar side data block, using a 5x5 matric font, would to have a text line scale longer (given lack of kerning and a set 5 pixel character width) than prototype font - which would be very noticable, yes? 

While anything beyond 1800 - 2000 dpi is likely overkill to the unaided eye, I'm hoping to develop competition grade artwork.  And given a brand new modern multi function color laser printer with true 2400x2400 dpi from top co like HP is now selling LESS than used/refurbished ALPS...and given the fact that ALPS are beyond their service / parts / supplies timeframe.

Even as it says "resolution up to 1200 dpi", and I'm concerned about adhesion of small font elements, I'm quite tempted to try this DecalPRO.  And I'm also attracted to the potential to use the same system for high res one offs of PE Brass and custom PCBs.   

Still looking for someone who's tried it...

[Chris333]

I can remember a Z scale center beam lumber car that was lettered with an ALPs. All the small printing was readable.
http://trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/rails-west-mfg-73-centerbeam-for-bc-rail.39659/

He made some Z decals for me and all small car data is readable.

[GaryHinshaw]

I can remember a Z scale center beam lumber car that was lettered with an ALPs. All the small printing was readable.
http://trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/rails-west-mfg-73-centerbeam-for-bc-rail.39659/

Robert is amazing.

[peteski]

Yes, I have no doubt an ALPS can do 5” scale N lettering  (0.8 mm nominal).

But I'm seeking something that can do 1" and 2" scale lettering with PAD printing like resolution.  Your 0.009" works out to about 1.5" scale font, yes?  What model was this on and was it with the optional "Photo Dye sub kit", which attempts to mimic 2400 dpi?

Not bad, though wouldn't one get massive pixelation using a 5x5 matrix font?  And worse, I would also expect a boxcar side data block, using a 5x5 matric font, would to have a text line scale longer (given lack of kerning and a set 5 pixel character width) than prototype font - which would be very noticable, yes? 

While anything beyond 1800 - 2000 dpi is likely overkill to the unaided eye, I'm hoping to develop competition grade artwork.  And given a brand new modern multi function color laser printer with true 2400x2400 dpi from top co like HP is now selling LESS than used/refurbished ALPS...and given the fact that ALPS are beyond their service / parts / supplies timeframe.

Even as it says "resolution up to 1200 dpi", and I'm concerned about adhesion of small font elements, I'm quite tempted to try this DecalPRO.  And I'm also attracted to the potential to use the same system for high res one offs of PE Brass and custom PCBs.   

Still looking for someone who's tried it...

All the things I discussed about Alps are for its try physical resolution of 600x600dpi. All the other resolutions (or DyeSub) are not true resolutions which can produce images with sharp outlines and solid colors.  All the Alps MD (MicroDry) printer models have true 600x600dpi resolution.

At 600dpi the dot (print element) size is 0.00167" diameter.  The smallest size letters I printed are simply a 5x5 array of dots (like the old style dot-matrix printers).  The letters are readable but they don't represent any specific font.  That was just a test of the printer's capabilities.  That size of letters is smaller then what you would really need for N scale dimensional data lettering.  As Gary said, Alps printer can handle the N scale lettering fine using its 600x600dpi resolution.

If you decide to try DecalPRO, I hope that you posts the results of your tests.

[jimmo]

Any price of price on this new system? All I see is an email address.

[sirenwerks]

Can ALPS do metallic prints, like silver or gold?