New tooled loco from Kato coming....

[Mark5]

MBK sold out of the recent "Japan" version of this earlier this year. I didn't know there was a set with the correct (Non-Japanese) trucks - very cool!

[bbussey]

How many of those cars are good for the 1980s if and when Kato releases them in Amtrak's Phase III paint?

Much of the Heritage fleet stayed in Phase I well into the 1980s.  All of the cars in this set can pass in the 1980s.  Just the 10-6 configurations for the most part ran through Connecticut as far as sleepers are concerned, so those and the diners and baggage cars hold my interest.

[nkalanaga]

Unfortunately, no cars for me.  The 2-car set would have been fine, if it was available in Amtrak, but I don't have any records of an ATSF "Pine" sleeper in the early 70s Empire Builder.  There may well have been one, because I saw relatively few trains close enough to record the names, but the only ex-ATSF "Pine" sleeper I have noted is in Amtrak paint.  I saw several "Palm" series cars in ATSF.  So, I'll save my money, and see if they run a second release.

ATSF coaches weren't uncommon, and I rode to Chicago in one in mid-73.

[basementcalling]

MBK sold out of the recent "Japan" version of this earlier this year. I didn't know there was a set with the correct (Non-Japanese) trucks - very cool!

Mark, dealer at the show said this was a set made for the German market that he obtained in the US. Exquisite  looking, and a reminder that Kato's new US tooling is a drop in the bucket of their total production, thus why they only sell a few new items in the US every year.

[jmlaboda]

Much of the Heritage fleet stayed in Phase I well into the 1980s.  All of the cars in this set can pass in the 1980s.

Not exactly.  The Indian-series cars were early retirees in the fleet of 11 Double Bedroom cars, with only one car, AMTK 2211 Indian Drum, lasted until 1982.   AMTK 2213 Indian Flute and 2217 Indian Pony were retired in 1981, 2212 Indian Falls and 2220 Indian Squaw retired 1979, 2218 Indian Scout and 2219 Indian Song retired 1977 and 2210 Indian Canoe retired in 1976.  The other three cars, 2214 Indian Lake, 2215 Indian Maid and 2216 Indian Mesa I have no retirement dates for.  Six ex-UP cars ended up being rebuilt with HEP for continued use as was three of the former Burlington 5 Compartment - 6 Double Bedroom cars (all rooms sold as Double Bedrooms).  All of the former Seaboard Coast Line cars (ex-Atlantic Coast Line and ex-Seaboard Air Line) were retired circa 1976 - 1977 save one that lasted until 1981, while fared only slightly better. The fact that they were rebuilds of another car type likely came into play when AMTK went looking at which cars they should retain.

[MRLX1020]

The newly tooled "Pine" series cars along with the "Pacific" series cars should be good for representations of cars into the HEP Heritage Fleet era - the skirts stayed the same, with the exception
of the corner treatment on some cars.

Amtrak used the same Budd "quarter round" type skirting on the cars after their trip through Beech Grove for HEP conversion (some early HEP conversion cars wore Ph2 scheme briefly)-
the entire underside of the car was cut off (Steam heat/A/C, gena-motors, batteries, etc.) on the burn down track, and then completely re-plumbed, power cabels added, new water tanks, electric A/C and new auxiliary systems added.  In many cases, new brackets were added to the side sills, and the quarter round skirting hid a multitude of sins....

I just hope that Kato will use the Outside Swing Hanger disc brake trucks under the applicable cars in this set, instead of the generic Inside Swing Hanger tread brake truck.
(The UP excursion set had the dome coach and coach on the wrong trucks - soooo close).

I recall an article once on how Amtrak qualified cars for updating and conversion to HEP:
Budd over Pullman/ACF in most cases
PostWar Truss/Girder Budd over PreWar Budds
Critical Mass of Car Type (reconfiguration of NYC and other diners into 48 seat cars that matched the CZ/CB&Q plan)
Standardization of plans (CB&Q Center Bedroom 10/6 sleepers and B&O Bird series cars were deemed to far off the charts for inclusion in the 10/6 and Slumbercoach program, although late built they would have made sweetheart cars when updated)

FWIW,

MRLX 1020

[peteski]

I just hope that Kato will use the Outside Swing Hanger disc brake trucks under the applicable cars in this set, instead of the generic Inside Swing Hanger tread brake truck.
(The UP excursion set had the dome coach and coach on the wrong trucks - soooo close).

Does Kato already make those trucks, or would they have to tool that truck from scratch?

[MRLX1020]

Kato used these trucks under the City of Los Angeles and El Capitan sets, so they have the tooling in place already...

[MRLX1020]

Kato has posted a Southwest Limited page - http://www.katousa.com/N/AMT-SWLimited/index.html

The pre-production artwork shows the tread braked inside swing hanger variety trucks under the Regal sleeper, Dome lounge and Diner. 

NOTE: These cars were DELIVERED with this type of trucks, and Santa Fe ordered OSH Disc brake trucks with their 1953 Budd Baggage cars and
they swapped them out to re-equip the Regals, Palms, Pines, Plaza domes and diners as they got them together in the same shop.  A contact who was
a former ATSF Passenger mechanic said that it was not uncommon for a car to arrive one afternoon at Redondo Jct. coach yard and depart the next day on
different trucks! The thought of this is amazing, as it is major surgery - involving new centerplates, shimming, 2 sets of car jacks, cranes, drop tables, springs,
air brake and plumbing supplies, and a small army of carmen.  But, they had the resources back then, and customer comfort was first and foremost with Santa Fe!

Regal Dome #2350:
http://www.railpixs.com/amt2/AMT_RegalDome_HoustonTx_Nov77a.jpg

Dome Lounge:
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?september03/09-22-03/AMTK9354_CoastStarlight_EugeneOr_Dec80.jpg

Here is diner 8075 (the only proto photo of car 8070 featured in the set has the trucks obscured):
http://rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-d8075jpa.jpg
Great Photo, with a de-skirted CB&Q car on the right, Hi-Level coach on the left...

This is as frustrating and cumbersome as the release of the Union Pacific excursion set having the coach and dome coach equipped with the improper tread brake trucks, while the rest of the set had the correct OSH disc brake trucks.  I suppose it might have to do with the floor of the car having screw on trucks or clip on trucks....?

I have a Southwest Limited set on pre-order, and look forward to it, just not having to spend another $40 to make it right.
Anyone have an in at Kato, I'd love to discuss the truck matter with them - only to help them get it right!

[peteski]

Call Kato and see if anybody will listen (or contact them through their webpage).   Ask for Kelley - he is one of the people involved in their prototype research and a good guy to talk to in general.

[EspeeGoldenState]

The car trucks wont  be changed, as a I had sent Paul an email about them being wrong on the artwork for the UP Excursion train, he replied saying it was just artwork and they would be correct. Well we know which way they came out. What you see in the artwork is most likely how they will be shipped because of the screw-on vs the clip on. The clip on will work just fine on the screw on type, just need to trim off the little nub on the clip and screw the screw on. It's what I'm having to do with some 10 or so cars because of this.

Good luck on getting them to change the trucks out.

Chris

[bbussey]

This is as frustrating and cumbersome as the release of the Union Pacific excursion set having the coach and dome coach equipped with the improper tread brake trucks, while the rest of the set had the correct OSH disc brake trucks.  I suppose it might have to do with the floor of the car having screw on trucks or clip on trucks....?

It could.  However, the clip-on trucks will work on cars requiring screw-on trucks if the little semi-circle nubs on the clips are shaved off with an X-Acto.  Then, the modified clip-on trucks fit perfectly on the screw bolster post.

[Ngineer]

Can you please tell me the Kato part number of the correct trucks so that I can order them now?

Just to avoid these parts being sold out when the Southwest Limited arrvies.

   Javier

[bbussey]

Can you please tell me the Kato part number of the correct trucks so that I can order them now?

Just to avoid these parts being sold out when the Southwest Limited arrvies.

#800125

FYI — I touched base with my Kato USA contacts.  They did try to have the correct 41-CDO trucks installed on all the Amtrak models, but Kato Japan didn't want to tool new 41-CDO trucks for the screw-mount Super Chief cars in order to satisfy the small percentage of modelers who know the difference (although you would think that the bolsters and sideframes would be interchangeable).  So the Super Chief tooling is coming with their original 41-CS-11 trucks.  Given how easy it is to swap out the trucks on the lone older car in the set I care about (the diner), I'm not concerned.  All the sleepers, including the Pacific 10-6, have clip-mounts and should have the proper 41-CDO trucks.

[Ngineer]

#800125

FYI — I touched base with my Kato USA contacts.  They did try to have the correct 41-CDO trucks installed on all the Amtrak models, but Kato Japan didn't want to tool new 41-CDO trucks for the screw-mount Super Chief cars in order to satisfy the small percentage of modelers who know the difference (although you would think that the bolsters and sideframes would be interchangeable).  So the Super Chief tooling is coming with their original 41-CS-11 trucks.  Given how easy it is to swap out the trucks on the lone older car in the set I care about (the diner), I'm not concerned.  All the sleepers, including the Pacific 10-6, have clip-mounts and should have the proper 41-CDO trucks.

Thank you very much.

I don't know that much regarding the correct trucks, so I will buy them and do some research to change the trucks on my ATSF Super Chief als well as on the Amtrak Phase I 4 car set/Penn Central 4 car set they did a few years ago. The Penn Central set has clip-mounts, like the Broadway Limited.

   Javier