First Release Kato F3 A & B

[strummer]

Just scored one of each.
 
As first releases, they have the truck-mounted Rapido couplers. I agree with Mark "Spookshow" that the "standard" MT replacements for truck mounts leave something to be desired. Is there some way to chassis-mount some MTs? Anyone out there done such a thing?

Thanks in advance.

Mark in Oregon

[carlso]

Mark

I know what you mean about the truck conversion kit. I think, if my memory hasn't totally gone, these conversions were #1128. I have an ABBA set that I painted in Black Widow scheme. The truck conversion were a real b**ch,as I recall but have worked fine now for a good 15-20 years since I got them.

If I were doing it again here is what I would look at doing with Z scale 903 or 905, whichever coupler. I would make sure the frames sat same distance from the rail and then I would drill and tap between the two frame halves for an .0090 screw. I would use a nylon screw so there would be no shorting. Might be a hard way but I bet it would work and by using the smaller Z scale coupler, I might be able to set it back a tad further from the end sill thus shortening the distance between two units. Of course I would cut off the coupler pocket from the truck very carefully.

I'll tell you one thing and that is those early first run F-7's that I have will pull stumps out of the layout. The ABBA set will probably pull more that 5 or 6 of the newer dcc ready frames versions.

Just my thought and my thinking can be considered dangerous. May try this after I get my GS-4 figured out.

Carl

[Cajonpassfan]

Mark, I have a number of the original KATO sets (and I tend to run them as ABBA sets). I used the Unimate short shank coupler on the blind end of each unit, with very good coupling distances, see photo. It's quick and cheap and effective, I think, and they will never uncouple on you when one of the units hits a dirty spot. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Just an option.
Regards, Otto

[Cajonpassfan]

Two more shots...self explanatory.
Correction: it's one short shank and one medium if you want diaphragms; I did these so long ago I forgot
Otto

[strummer]

Yea, the Unimate. Looks to be a decent option.

Thanks.

Mark in Oregon

[casmmr]

Yes, MTL on the front of the A units and unimates for the rest.  I have 2 sets ABBA and 1 ABA done that way.  Great pullers.  Have fun.

[superchief]

yes the first run(blue box) and second run(green box) are stump pullers. The first run do not have better revised trucks, but neither the original or revised trucks are still on the Kato parts page(except one gray front truck). To convert the front of an A unit requires a Micro Trains #1159 conversion. About a year ago I tried to buy a few more of these for the fleet of F's that I have and were not shown in stock, I called Chuck at Feather River Trains and he contacted someone at M/T and I got 5 more in plastic baggies with #1159 written on the bag with a marker!!!!! Way to go Chuck and Micro Trains!!!!!!!!! Gordon 

[strummer]

OK, so I'll need an MT 1159; good to know. How does one go about removing the existing Rapido from the front? Is there a trick to it? And will I need to remove the trucks in order to swap out the Rapidos elsewhere for the Unimates?

As always, thanks to everyone.

Mark in Oregon

[rschaffter]

This How-to shows how I added a rear coupler mounting pad to a split-frame ER/Bachmann shark...

http://z11.invisionfree.com/N_Scale_Talk/index.php?showtopic=278

[arbomambo]

I 'ditto' Otto and the others...unimates in the 'B' ends...I use MT 905 Z scale couples in the cab unit pilots...to remove the front Rapido is a simple procedure; remove the clip and the Rapido should fall right out.
I don't recommend attempting a body mount (using a pad or otherwise) on the B ends of any of the  Kato cab unit engines...Fs, Es, and PAs
`Bruce

[Cajonpassfan]

I 'ditto' Otto and the others...
I don't recommend attempting a body mount (using a pad or otherwise) on the B ends of any of the  Kato cab unit engines...Fs, Es, and PAs
`Bruce

And I "ditto" Bruce; the split frame mechanisms put the mounting screw in the awkward space in the middle. A mounting pad and nonconductive nylon screws can overcome this, but just in the way of disassembly...
Otto

[atsf_arizona]

Like Cajonpassfan said, I am also a real fan of using short shank Unimates between Kato F units. 

The close spacing looks great (much better than the too-large spacing on stock IM F's IMHO) and because of that short spacing, you can't tell nor do you care whether the Unimate is truck mounted or body mounted.  Just my 2 cents worth - do what you feel is right.

Really easy to do and very fast, once you know how.    So in pursuit of "how?".......

Here's my tutorial on installing the short-shank Unimates, these are methods I learned from many long time N scalers
who have been doing short shank truck-mount Unimates on Kato F's and E's for 20 years now:

http://www.pbase.com/atsf_arizona/kato_n_scale_unimate_install

Here's a couple photos from the above, the URL has a full set of pictures of the procedure from beginning to end, including the
'toothpick trick' to remove the Kato shells from these locos, how you do the angle cuts on the T-shank of the Unimates,
and how you use a spare spring to auto-center and hold the Unimate in the stock Kato coupler pocket.  Here's the excerpted pics:









http://www.pbase.com/atsf_arizona/kato_n_scale_unimate_install

Again, the URL above has a full set of pictures of the procedure from beginning to end.
I trust this helps!

[strummer]

Thank you, John, that's awesome!

As far as removing the "clip" that holds the front coupler; are there legs that get squeezed inward, or how is this  accomplished?

Mark in Oregon

[atsf_arizona]

OK, so I'll need an MT 1159; good to know. How does one go about removing the existing Rapido from the front? Is there a trick to it? And will I need to remove the trucks in order to swap out the Rapidos elsewhere for the Unimates?

As always, thanks to everyone.

Mark in Oregon

My pics above show answers to your questions.  No, you don't have to remove the trucks at all, to swap the Rapido couplers for the Unimates. 

It may have been pointed out somewhere else, but the Short Shank Unimate couplers we use for these Kato F / E unit conversions are the Red Caboose 51000s on the left in this picture:

 

Hope that helps!

[atsf_arizona]

Also, while no one asked, this may be of value on this Unimate discussion as well:

The Kato E units and PA1's also can be close-coupled using Unimates.... but the inter-unit spacing is different than Kato's F units.

Specifically, if you try to use short-shank Unimates on both coupling ends of the Kato E units and PA1's, they will be too close together.

The solution I came up with is an asymmetrical configuration for these Kato E's and PA1's, i.e. a short-shank on one side and medium-shank on the other side.  While this introduces a 'usually-run-it-in-one-configuration-only' aspect, for me this hasn't been a problem.  Here's a
PDF that I created several years ago documenting this:

http://home.comcast.net/~atsf_arizona/Close-Coupling_Kato_E8_and_PA1_using_asymmetrical_Unimates_by_John_Sing.pdf







Following three Kato PA1's have this asymmetrical Unimate configuration, the inter-unit spacing is the above
close-coupled distance (it may look like the front two units are closer than the other, but that's just
because the two leading locos are entering a curve and the trailing unit hasn't yet entered the curve):



OK, now back to Kato F unit discussions.