Con-Cor 2-8-8-2 crumbly chassis

[angusw48]

I have a Con-Cor Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 that I purchased some years ago and have always had stored in its box. The loco looks like it has never been run but unfortunately the metal of the main chassis is cracking and crumbling and the frame for the rear set of drivers is warped. Is there any possibility that somewhere there still exist some spares for these long out of production locos and if so does anyone know where? Failing that (my expectation), is there the possibility that since I expect this problem has been encountered before, that someone has done a 3D file for these parts and is it possible to get a new 3D metal print replacement?
Angus

[brokemoto]

The power chassis is made out of a zinc based potmetal called "zirmac".  It decays over time, mostly by cracking and crumbling.  I have two of these with broken power chassis.   A couple of years back, C-C was offering to accept these back, even with cracked and broken frames, as long as the locomotive was complete.  The broken locomotive and forty dollars got you a C-C "GS-4" (in reality a shell that looks much like a GS-4 on a GN S-2 chassis) in their choice of roadname.  This means that likely, most people received a "PRR GS-4" for their trouble.   I meant to send in my two, the eighty bananas and collect my two "PRR GS-4"s, but never got a Round Tuit.  I do not know if C-C will make the trade, still.

What you would have to do, likely, is search FeePay and shows.  If you do find one, be prepared to have it discombobulate without warning.  Eventually, most of these will discombobulate, if most of them have not done so, already.

[victor miranda]

this is one of the more heartbreaking aspects of n-scale
and what Rivarossi did.

the common name is zinc-pest.
there are a lot of names for it.

what you have is a lot of spare parts for a 2-8-8-2.
there is no fix for the problem.
I have a similar kit here in my basement,  I bought it knowing the frame was crumbling.

I can only suggest that such locos go for about 80 dollars on the bay.
and that hunting one of the LL/w 2-8-8-2 units may be a better option.

spare parts, if a frame is a spare part..., are not generally available in n-scale.
If you do the 3d metal printing thing, I sure I'd want to buy one
I just find it hard to think it would be a lower price than a new LL one.

victor

[pnolan48]

It has ZAMACitis. Rivarossi cast many frames with ZAMAC. With improper temperatures and/or impurities, the frames swell, distort and crumble. Perhaps one in five to one in ten frames avoided it. I base this estimate on the scads of old Atlas 0-8-0s and light 4-6-2s that I purchased years ago as yard queens, when they were being auctioned off on e-Bay. They were actually decent runners when new, but deteriorated quickly, often while on retailers shelves. I had a few, five years ago when I broke down my layout, that did not deteriorate; I wonder what their condition is now. People have tried soaking them in superglue or epoxy; neither worked. I was able to get a few warped 0-8-0s running by carefully grinding out the slots that held the axles, and remotoring them with cheap robotic motors, but then LL (or Walthers) versions came out, and there was no comparison, so the old ones were relegated to yard queens again.

My MRC 2-8-8-2 still runs like a dream. I have never gotten my Atlas 2-8-8-2 out of the toilet paper it came wrapped in off e-Bay. I know I can make that thing run (probably by breaking it in half)! But I don't have time, nor the layout, right now.

[Mark5]

Is the Rowa (MRC) frame more durable, and will the RivRossi drive train fit it?

[victor miranda]

motor fitting may be different.

other than that the major parts can swap.

the plastic siderods are not interchangeable
they go with the drivers.

if he had the Rowa chassis, his parts will transfer.
the engine frames...  I think the parts can move over as well.

I have a recollection that a valve hanger is riveted...

it is a frustratingly close project.
plan to make a few parts or do a little grinding...

victor

[johnh35]

I have one of the old NSN replacement frames for the Atlas 0-8-0. Did they ever do such a frame for the 2-8-8-2?

[Mark5]

I have two of the RR Y6bs, neither are crumbly (last time I checked!).

I wonder how much trouble it would be to create something like the NSN frames for this loco.

Mark

[Doug G.]

I have repaired several Zamac frames with super glue and reshaping and they have lasted many years. The first was an Atlas/Rivarossi 0-8-0 about 25-30 years ago and it is still fine.

Whether or not your frame is salvageable depends on the extent of the problem. If it's cracked but otherwise stable, it probably can be resurrected. If it crumbles just by handling it, it's probably too far gone but my 0-8-0 was in a lot of pieces and i was able to fix it.

See the section concerning this on my site.

Doug

[pnolan48]

Doug, you are one of the few! If anyone could fix these old things, it would be you. After I found a few that didn't have ZAMACitis, I gave up trying to fix the others, and gave many of them away. If the motor hadn't fried, they were actually nice, smooth runners. The cheap Mashima robot motors for about $3 made a good replacement for the fried ones, although the shafts were too small in diameter. I never did get around to making a 0-8-8-8-0 out of the mechanisms. Would have taken one hell of a motor. Didn't most of the motors fry simply because the frames swelled and bound up the axles?

[Doug G.]

Hi Pete,

Believe me, if I could easily find new frames, I would use them but I fixed them out of necessity and just to see if I could.

Although axles binding in the slots is easily a contibuting factor, the older Rivarossi motors really weren't that good, expecially the commutators, and they would quit from the commutator form deteriorating and releasing the commutator segments which would then fly outward, killing the motor. Rivarossi improved the later ones with a more robust commutator and they actually last. This happened by the time of the 0-4-0.

The Zamacitis problem never is really solved as has been seen in some recent bad frames. It's all in the formulation and proof one way or the other isn't really evident until it's too late.

Doug

[Doug G.]

Also, as Mark indicated with his Y6bs, if a frame doesn't show deterioration within a fairly short time period, within, say, five years, it will probably last forever. It's not a characteristic of Zamac, itself. It's in the formulation of the batch.

Doug

[angusw48]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my post. I'm mainly a PRR modeller in the steam/diesel transition era waiting hopefully for good running affordable K4's and T1's etc and the thought of a 'PRR GS4' just makes me shudder! lol
The amount of cracking around the motor and elsewhere makes me think that not even the most expert applicator of superglue would resurrect this loco and the frame for the rear drivers is bent like a banana! Shame for an otherwise 'new' loco. I have two of the original LL 2-8-8-2 locos that came DC only with no traction tyres that won't pull the skin off a custard...I wanted to see if I could have a similar coal train with later locos and more hoppers on my clubs DCC modular setup so this idea may be put on hold. I know there is the possibility of 3D metal prints, I may explore this in the future when I have the time.
I have come across this Zamac swelling/cracking problem before. Heljan HO Class 47 locos here in the UK suffered from it and I recently had an Intermountain F3 where half the frame became swelled and cracked. I never owned any of the Heljan locos that suffered from this and Intermountain were very good in mailing a free replacement chassis for the F3.
Angus

[victor miranda]

well, I see there is a plastic side rod version of this loco out on the bay.

the one I have is lettered for prr.  and was the RR version.
this one is lettered for PRR.

it may be a solution.
I do not think I'll be bidding.

victor

[mmagliaro]

Say..
If your LL 2-8-8-2 had traction tires on it, would that solve your problem?

(queue the diabolical organ music)...

Fritz!  Bring me that jar on the top shelf!  Hoist the electrodes!

Back to reality...
Seriously, would that solve your problem?  I am wondering if the same tricks we play on
the LL Berkshire would work here - either try the thin double-sided tape thingy, or pull the driver and cut
a groove for tires.