Con-Cor 4-6-4 modification

[mmagliaro]

Problem!   While installing the decoder, I somehow touched an idler gear with my soldering iron  (the gear had fallen out of the frame and I didn't notice).  It's a about 1/2 gear and 1/2 blob now. I don't think I can rescue it.       The other idler gear is just fine, so at least I have a reference part.

Not my best night at the workbench.

I now need a replacement idler gear for a Chinese-made Con-Cor Hudson.    Besides calling Con-Cor and hoping for a minor miracle, any suggestions?  Anyone got one in their junk-box they'd be willing to part with?

George

Post some photos of it.   I have some Hudson parts lying around.  I might have one.  Which idler is it?

[nickelplate759]

It's the one labeled "small idler gear" in this diagram.  There are actually two of them - the unlabeled one in the picture is identical.
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George

[mmagliaro]

Well, if it is the same as the ones used in the Kato Hudson, then I've got one for ya.

The Kato are 1.5mm bore, 18 teeth (module 0.3 I think).
Can you measure the pin diameter in your frame and count the teeth?     I am not sure if the gears are the same
between the two versions.  I never bought any of the ConCor ones made in China.

Anybody know if the gears are the same between the 1980's era Kato-built and the later ConCor ones?

[victor miranda]

I am not going to be a direct help... until after I get home.

I know the metal side rod hudson used a different gear size.
and I know that CC says the drivers are not swappable.
what I do not know is if that 'swap' restriction was for the metal siderod
model or the newer Kato version.

victor

[mmagliaro]

Some handy info:

Bachmann gear   811XX-00M02  from the 2-8-0, fits and meshes perfectly.  It is a tad wide, so
you would need to rub the face on some fine sandpaper (or similar) to take some thickness off it
so it does not get stuck between the frames.  But it is 0.3mod, 1.5mm bore, 18t and works.

Kato gear: 931020 (from the GP-38, GP-50, and first-run F units)  also works.  It is thinner, so there
is no frame problem.  It is 0.3mod, 18t and meshes good.  But, it is a 1.6mm bore instead of 1.5mm,
so it has just a tad of looseness on the post.  However, I think it would still work.
The Bachmann is a 1.5mm bore and really fits and rotates beautifully on the pin.  It's just a little too
wide.

I tested both of these gears by putting them into an opened spare 4-6-4 mech I have lying around,
so I know the gears fit and mesh smoothly, but that's all I did, so I cannot say for sure how well they would
actually run in an assembled engine.

Both can be purchased from the Bachmann or Kato
websites. 

Just alternatives...

[nickelplate759]

Max - thanks for the info.

Yes, it's 18 teeth, 1.5mm bore (fits just a little loose), and does appear to be 0.3 mod.

I've also got a call into Concor - they guy with the answers wasn't in when I called, they said try again tomorrow.  If that doesn't pan out I'll get the Bachmann gear.

Regards,
George

[mmagliaro]

Well, this may just be me but....

I think you have two good options:

1. Send me a PM and a buck or two for postage and I mail you a Hudson gear

2. Order some of the Bachmann gears and then just rub
the Bachmann gear on a smooth flat piece of sandpaper until you thin it down a little and it rides nicely between
the Hudson frames.

My experiences trying to get parts out of Con-Cor is that it's like trying to teach a cat to play
 "Won't Get Fooled Again".    Sometimes it works, but I try to avoid it if at all possible.

[Mark.S+10]

Max,

Please post a video of your cat playing

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Have fun, Mark

[victor miranda]

any and all alternatives to CC parts are to be explored.

get it from anywhere else if possible.

victor

[mmagliaro]

Max,

Please post a video of your cat playing

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Have fun, Mark

Believe me, if I could, I would.   (And if I could get parts out of Con-Cor, I would       which is
why I suggested alternatives)

[nickelplate759]

Update :
The replacement for the melted gear was obtained (thank you Max!)  and the gear train works well.  The DCC decoder is installed in the boiler and works.  NOT an easy DCC install in this chassis.

Next Challenge:

The paint  (I used TruColor) failed to adhere to the driver tires.  It just flakes right off.   I don't know if it's the factory-applied blackening or something else.  The paint stuck just fine to the plastic driver centers. I washed (detergent and water) the drivers prior to painting, of course.  I'll have to repaint, but clearly I need either a different paint or a different prep method.      Any suggestions?

George

[mmagliaro]

On metal, I would lightly sand the edges of the metal tires, and then paint them with
Scalecoat I  (the solvent-based stuff).   

[nickelplate759]

Paint seems better now - here's what I did:

0. strip off the old paint with scalecoat II wash-away paint remover
1. sand the face of the tires with 400 grit sandpaper, to take off all the blackening.
2. prime with Rustoleum flat white primer.     It leaves a bit of texture, alas, but still not bad.  Let it dry 5 days.
3. finish coat with Truecolor paint - a mix of mostly white with a little silver.

It seems to hold up OK - certainly better than the first attempt.  Now I have to clean the paint off of the treads.

<edited for spelling correction>

George

[nickelplate759]

Slow progress.  Drivers are painted, cleaned and installed, but pickup is terrible.  I suspected the tender, so cleaned  up all contact points and checked it with an Ohm meter. Not the problem!  Turns out that one of the leads from the tender to the engine  (left side) has intermittent connectivity, so I'll have to replace it .  This engine project has certainly been an adventure.


George

[nickelplate759]

Sheesh!  Fixed the broken wire, but it turns out that tender pickup is still poor.  The problem seems to be between the tender wheels and those brass contact strips - the ones that Max Magliaro designed the bronze-wire upgrade for.  Contact between those strips and the bronze strips in the tender floor seems OK, so I think it's the wheels themselves.    I polished the wheels and the inner contact area and it helps some, but not enough.  Adding 1 oz of lead to the tender helps some too, but isn't practical.   I'm suspecting the blackening agent on the wheels, as my polishing job didn't remove it, just made it shiny.    On the drivers I did remove the blackening (I used a heavier abrasive) and they seem to contact far better than the tender wheels.

GEorge