Kato's Super Chief trucks

[Loren Perry]

Maybe I'm getting a little anal here, but my Kato 12-car Super Chief (beautiful set of cars) all have the same style of truck. They appear to be drop equalizer types.

In the 1990's, when I was single and had some extra cash, I bought an imported brass set of Super Chief cars (also 12 cars) that all had outside swing hanger trucks. As I study various prototype photos, it appears at least two, and possibly three designs of trucks were used on the 1951 Super Chief as modeled by Kato.

Now Kato offers several styles of compatible trucks as spare parts on their website.

Do any of you Santa Fe experts out there have a clue just which cars had which trucks? I'm only interested in the 12 Kato cars which include an RPO, Baggage, Dormitory-Lounge, Diner, Dome-Lounge, Observation Lounge, and three each of Regal and Palm-series sleepers.

[thomasjmdavis]

You might want to take a closer look, there is actually a very small distinction between the trucks under the Pullman Standard cars and the trucks under the ACF cars on the Kato Super Chief. Not sure I qualify as an expert, but from what I've read and photos I have seen, from the mid-50s on (ie- after the Super Chief cars were built), ATSF opted for outside swing hanger trucks (41-CDO-11, if I remember the nomenclature) for new cars, and frequently applied them when they rebuilt or repaired older cars.  Many, perhaps most, sleepers originally on the San Fran Chief were retrucked with outside swing hanger trucks by 1964 or 55, and as time went on, the sleepers would serve in different trains- even those that frequently ran on the Super Chief- so you would see a mix of truck types on any given train.  Best advice seems to be to try to find a consist for the time period you are modeling, and try to get information or photos of the particular cars. Sleeping Cars of the Santa Fe is a good place to start, along with the book on diners.  Baggage cars usually did not have the newer trucks, and if delivered with them, had them removed to be used under sleepers, lounges and diners.  Alot of the question of which trucks go under which car is dependent on the year.  I think all the Kato "out of the box" are pretty accurate for "as delivered."

[Loren Perry]

Thomas -

I did as you suggested and took a closer look at my Kato consist. All the trucks are 100% identical and interchangeable. At least I can't seem to find any differences, but I could be wrong. They all feature a drop equalizer frame, four visible coil springs, a top-mounted air brake cylinder on the upper outside of the truck, and a side-mounted stabilizer bar on the end of the truck nearest the car's center.

But your info on change-outs and upgrades over time makes sense to me. And the photos I've found so far show so much variation that I'd be hard-pressed to figure out exactly which cars had which trucks in the mid-1950's which is the era I model.

So I'll have faith in Kato's research for now and leave things as they are. I can always change trucks later if I learn more.

Thank you!

[thomasjmdavis]

Loren,

Here is what I see on my cars (I admit, I had to do a close inspection- I remembered they were different, but did not remember the specifics) comparing the trucks of the ACF 4-4-2 to the PS lounge -
the roller bearing mountings are a bit different
the ACF truck has a different bracket below the springs
The PS truck as a more pronounced "ridge" above the roller bearing

I checked on Spookshow's site, and he lists the Pullman truck as GSC-41-CUS-11 and the PS truck as GSC-41-CS-11.
http://www.spookshow.net/trucks/trucks.php

[Loren Perry]

Holy Moley. And I thought I was being anal! You're right!

Kato has taken scale "anality" to a new level. Any other manufacturer would have been satisfied having one tool serving all the cars' trucks. I can't believe Kato went to the trouble and expense of tooling up for two separate truck moldings when the differences are so subtle they're all but invisible to only the pickiest of eyes.

You clearly have such eyes. Thanks for alerting me to the difference!

Loren,

Here is what I see on my cars (I admit, I had to do a close inspection- I remembered they were different, but did not remember the specifics) comparing the trucks of the ACF 4-4-2 to the PS lounge -
the roller bearing mountings are a bit different
the ACF truck has a different bracket below the springs
The PS truck as a more pronounced "ridge" above the roller bearing

I checked on Spookshow's site, and he lists the Pullman truck as GSC-41-CUS-11 and the PS truck as GSC-41-CS-11.
http://www.spookshow.net/trucks/trucks.php

[Frisco Larry]

Holy Moley is right!  Had the SC cars since they came out in Jan 2006 and never spotted that.

Just checked all my cars to make sure that the correct trucks were on the correct cars (not realizing there were two kinds of trucks, they might have strayed when I installed lighting kits etc.) and discovered that the 60' RPO has the PS trucks, even though it is an ACF car.  In checking prototype photos, I found the 87 and 88 and both actually have the PS trucks instead of the ACF trucks.

[peteski]

Both of these trucks have been around for a while - it is not like Kato made this specifically for the Super Chief.  But they were smart to use both types.  I'm wondering if these trucks have different coupler extension and Kato simply used what was needed for the particular cars.

[MRLX1020]

I'm going to take the confusion one step further here:

All these trucks were built by General Steel Industries or General Steel Castings (GSI or GSC) - and were applied to Pullman, ACF and Budd cars.

The original Kato truck is a "run of the mill" Inside swing hanger tread brake truck with slab equalizers and Hyatt type bearings - this is from the original run in 1994
The Business Car trucks are a disc brake type with Timken grease bearings
Kato then tooled the different trucks for the Super Chief cars - with Canton Forgings I beam equalizers and Timken bearings.
The Broadway Limited got yet another type of inside swing hanger trucks with elliptical bolster dampers per PRR prototype
The El Capitan and UP COLA cars have a Kato disc brake Outside Swing Hanger type truck - ATSF Hi Levels and UP Domes used a larger 6.5x12 bearing and beefier trucks for
the heavier centerplate load of these big cars.

[peteski]

I'm going to take the confusion one step further here:

All these trucks were built by General Steel Industries or General Steel Castings (GSI or GSC) - and were applied to Pullman, ACF and Budd cars.

The original Kato truck is a "run of the mill" Inside swing hanger tread brake truck with slab equalizers and Hyatt type bearings - this is from the original run in 1994
The Business Car trucks are a disc brake type with Timken grease bearings
Kato then tooled the different trucks for the Super Chief cars - with Canton Forgings I beam equalizers and Timken bearings.
The Broadway Limited got yet another type of inside swing hanger trucks with elliptical bolster dampers per PRR prototype
The El Capitan and UP COLA cars have a Kato disc brake Outside Swing Hanger type truck - ATSF Hi Levels and UP Domes used a larger 6.5x12 bearing and beefier trucks for
the heavier centerplate load of these big cars.

Photos of all those Kato trucks are on Spookshow's website.  While the info you mention is correct (I assume - since I'm no expert), some of the Kato trucks you mentioned look totally different than the ones used on the Super Chief.  Also, there is a truck which only has the bottom part of the sideframe modeled - it is used on the fully skirted cars.

[mcjaco]

How can they get this right, but screw up the E5 nose?

[arbomambo]

E5 nose isn't screwed up...what am I missing here-
Bruce

[wcfn100]

E5 nose isn't screwed up...what am I missing here-
Bruce

There's a 13 page thread here in which you participated .   

Everyone survived just fine and made their choices, no real need to drag it up again.

Jason

[mcjaco]

Just goofin'.  And showing that everyone does things real good on production items, and screws things up.   

[Sokramiketes]

Maybe I'm getting a little anal here, but my Kato 12-car Super Chief (beautiful set of cars) all have the same style of truck. They appear to be drop equalizer types.

In the 1990's, when I was single and had some extra cash, I bought an imported brass set of Super Chief cars (also 12 cars) that all had outside swing hanger trucks. As I study various prototype photos, it appears at least two, and possibly three designs of trucks were used on the 1951 Super Chief as modeled by Kato.

Now Kato offers several styles of compatible trucks as spare parts on their website.

Do any of you Santa Fe experts out there have a clue just which cars had which trucks? I'm only interested in the 12 Kato cars which include an RPO, Baggage, Dormitory-Lounge, Diner, Dome-Lounge, Observation Lounge, and three each of Regal and Palm-series sleepers.

I bought up a bunch of spare trucks off the El Capitan (outside swing hanger) for a project to upgrade my Super Chief cars in the same manner Santa Fe did.  Unfortunately Kato changed the design of the bolsters between the two releases, and the El Cap has the clip on trucks.  They will still fit on the older style bolsters with screws, but the ears need to be clipped back. 

I'm not sure that the RPO and baggage cars got upgraded, but the rest of the train did.

[peteski]

Unfortunately Kato changed the design of the bolsters between the two releases, and the El Cap has the clip on trucks.  They will still fit on the older style bolsters with screws, but the ears need to be clipped back. 

I'm really glad that they made the clip-on ones backwards compatible with only minimal effort.