New layout plans.

[ScrewySqrl]

thinking on the reach questions, I'm wondering about this idea:

Put the yard back in the middle along the diagonal, but mirror-imaged using left hand turnouts instead of right hand, so it is all north of the mainline.  Stretch out the siding where ACME is now, and shift those 4 industries on the long side to be switched from that now longer siding in stead of the middle (not all in a row, of course), maybe by copying the star shape from the start of this process.  I'll fiddle with it this evening and see how it goes.  Hopefully I can leave the yard switches reachable and still have the 4 industries

[ScrewySqrl]

as promised (if ayone is still paying attention  ):



colors: blue is mainline, yellow is Yard, purple is the yard lead.  grey is interchange track (which may just stay straight to the edge instead.

with the interchange there are 10 industries. the longest yard track is about 66" long, enough to build a set of cars 20 cars long of 34" tankers, 16 cars long of 40 foot boxcars/reefers, 12 cars long of 50 foot boxcars and hoppers, 10 cars of 65 foot long tankers and gondolas, 8 85 foot passenger cars or 89 foot autoracks.



just a small note: I may try to shrink the yard to a 'supernook' of 10-7-7 or 10-8-8, and yard lead of 7 or 8 cars plus loco, with the goal to create a random 10 car consist  out of 17 or 18 cars.  yes, yes, yes, I know It will make yard work difficult.  But I enjoy the mental challenge of inglenook.

[Philip H]

Considering where you started, I'd stop right here.  I understand the mental challenges of an Inglenook, but the reason its designed the way it is is to mimic operations that could occur on a larger layout if space was available.  SInc eyou have a larger space, you don't have the limitations that created the Inglenook in the first place.

[nscalemike]

Considering where you started, I'd stop right here.

I agree.  Lot's of progress which I believe you will ultimately be happier with.  One thought I just had, can you put any type of staging off the grey track, either straight down or straight left?  It doesn't need to be big, a 3" wide cassette type shelf for staging.  Reason I say this, you scrap the ACME Products, or make it abandonded, then you could run this as an out and back type layout, from staging, around the top, catch the yard lead, switch the yard, head down to the bottom passing track, work those industries, run around your train, and go back to staging.  You have the loop for when you want roundy-round ops, but you now have a very nice operational layout.  You could even break that up if you have two operators, one could go from staging, work the foods and electronics plus the yard, while a local is out switching the bottom industries. 

Time to build!

[ScrewySqrl]

I'm thinking of rearranging the industries a little bit, and save a few turnouts:  Shift Acme over to where the truck transfer is now, hang the Trucking and Electronics on spurs directly off the middle passing siding, switch Krestle to  a single right hand turnout and move the grain elevator to being a backdrop industry on the topmost passing siding just straight along the back or at the end of the Interchange (where it could be ignore for the out-n-back maneuver of a visiting train that you just suggested)

[MichaelWinicki]

I like the latest version. 

I do think I would throw a couple more Avon collectibles on Ebay and try to increase the budget so that a couple turnouts could be added in the yard area for a one-track engine house and maybe a caboose/maintenance track.

[C855B]

Acme won't work where it is. You have to think like the prototype - if there is a car spotted at their dock (presuming Acme is served by rail), then it has blocked access to Qual-Cyntel. You can't "conveniently" plan on pushing the car out of the way, what if Acme's dock crew is loading/unloading? Your crew isn't going to sit there and wait, after all, time = money.

Leave Krestle alone. The escape switch arrangement you have now allows your local to spot a couple of incoming cars between the switches while making it less work (fewer moves) to pull the outbound cars. Being able to store a couple of cars in such an arrangement is a common way of reducing shipping rates. For instance, the local brings four inbound cars, spots two at the dock and then two between the switches. Krestle's people work with the two "new" cars, finish loading or unloading, the shipping clerk calls the railroad, and the next trip out the local pulls the two outbounds from the dock and shoves the two stored cars back to the dock, and - depending on their shipping contract - either takes the outbounds with them (for instance, if they're empties), or moves the outbounds to the storage track. Then when all four are ready to go, takes them in a single shipping block.

Everything else seems to work. Good advice here, and to your credit there has been a huge metamorphosis from the original design.

[wazzou]

On the blue line in the upper right corner, above the yard, I'd switch to a left-hand TO to improve flow and remove the S-Curve.

I agree about Acme and I'm not sure about the short runaround on the Krestle spur.

[ScrewySqrl]

Acme won't work where it is. You have to think like the prototype - if there is a car spotted at their dock (presuming Acme is served by rail), then it has blocked access to Qual-Cyntel. You can't "conveniently" plan on pushing the car out of the way, what if Acme's dock crew is loading/unloading? Your crew isn't going to sit there and wait, after all, time = money.

Leave Krestle alone. The escape switch arrangement you have now allows your local to spot a couple of incoming cars between the switches while making it less work (fewer moves) to pull the outbound cars. Being able to store a couple of cars in such an arrangement is a common way of reducing shipping rates. For instance, the local brings four inbound cars, spots two at the dock and then two between the switches. Krestle's people work with the two "new" cars, finish loading or unloading, the shipping clerk calls the railroad, and the next trip out the local pulls the two outbounds from the dock and shoves the two stored cars back to the dock, and - depending on their shipping contract - either takes the outbounds with them (for instance, if they're empties), or moves the outbounds to the storage track. Then when all four are ready to go, takes them in a single shipping block.

Everything else seems to work. Good advice here, and to your credit there has been a huge metamorphosis from the original design.

On the blue line in the upper right corner, above the yard, I'd switch to a left-hand TO to improve flow and remove the S-Curve.

I agree about Acme and I'm not sure about the short runaround on the Krestle spur.

Yeah, one reason I'm thinking of re-arranging the spurs is I can't easily picture how I'd switch those three.  right now, I'm thinking the long interchange spur along the bottom, heading toward the left edge of the layout, possibly turning off the edge before it gets there.     One or two segments in, a right hand turnout goes to Krestle with a curve followed by twi straights.  MAYBE along the long spur will be the grain silos, continuing past them to the interchange, Or that may be relegated to a backboard industry in the top spur.  off the lower blue siding will be Connery Voyas' Trucking and the Electronics factory,  with road access that parallels the rails. (Krestle will meet this road).  On the right side, where the Trucking transfer and grain silo are now, that will be a single, straight spur leading to Acme, cleaning that up some.  I can't do a left hand turnout at the top (It'll run into the yard lead), what I'll do is move the existing turnout in one segment, removing the S curve.

picture tonight

[ScrewySqrl]

as promised the update.

sketched in some road options and urban buildings.

down to just 22 turnouts as well.

[conrail98]

I'll add 2 more turnouts, but if you can connect the blue and yellow track on the right side of the yard you'll gain some operational flexibility there,

Phil

[jpec]

I like it! Some urban density will provide view blocks (if you can find the articles or photos of Malcolm Furlow's Carbondale Central for examples of how he used elevated roadways for view blocks) and if you go with a 48" or higher benchwork that will help as well.

Jeff

[ScrewySqrl]

fall back plan:

while I also have the two-door layout plan, I have this as a fallback if the other is looking too expensive



min radius 9.75"
Prototype: Original Norfolk Southern
fictionalized Central North Carolina
1955-1960

Grey: base elevation (1 inch foam)
White: tunnel (effective 1.75" ceiling under a 1/4 inch foam base for the upper level))
Green: 3% grade from base to 2"  (if stretched back to the tunnel entrace a 2% grade can be managed
Red: 2" elevatio (on 1/4" foam base)
Orange: industry trackage
Brown: yard
Dark Green: Interchange with Southern (base elevation)
Purple: Interchange with Seaboard Air Line (2" elevation)
Blue: river (-1" elevation..on base board)

[ScrewySqrl]

*Bump*

any thoughts on the fallback plan (which I have been tweaking). 

One note, I had this as a previous layout, which is mostly apart.  but 2% slope (starting a bit farther back than th 3% slow shown) is still intact (going back so that the only on-grade segement at the top is that first 5" segment out of the tunnel, so that section would already be there, and cannot be changed

[davefoxx]

ScrewySqrl,

I think there's too much going on in the fallback plan.  It's so easy to turn a track plan into a spaghetti bowl, and this plan is approaching that.  Also, the one-car passing siding near the Cigarette Factory is not ideal.  Ed's Law?

DFF