Why are DCC systems so crappy?

[basementcalling]

...and if you are a grunt facing enemy armor, the A-10 was probably the prettiest site you'd ever hope to see (with the exception of your Mom and your girlfriend.)

...that just means that you've lead a charmed existence dealing with first-rate documentation.  There are far worse tech manuals, even for basic consumer items that everyone buys.  Have you ever tried to make sense of the technical manual for your phone, or the computer on your car?

I dunno, if your Mom and Girlfriend are useful on a battlefield....   

[tappertrainman]

I just heard about this product, seems like where the future of DCC can go.  Uses Android phone hardware with a touchscreen and physical knob to provide the best of both worlds.  Hooks up to the base system using your standard household WiFi or an Access Point if you don't have WiFi at home.  It was just announced this year, I'll be interested to see how it works in the real world when people get their hands on it.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/mobile-control-ii/

[C855B]

I just heard about this product, seems like where the future of DCC can go.  Uses Android phone hardware with a touchscreen and physical knob to provide the best of both worlds.  Hooks up to the base system using your standard household WiFi or an Access Point if you don't have WiFi at home.  It was just announced this year, I'll be interested to see how it works in the real world when people get their hands on it.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/mobile-control-ii/

Wow. Quite a product. Was unable to find pricing, however (maybe I didn't look in the right place). This is the kind of thing that has to be produced in 100,000+ quantities to be affordable for consumers... not something the MRR market can support by itself. Maybe it's just a MRR adaptation of an OEM product, and the key then is getting some developer to generalize it for JMRI. I'm fairly confident that ESU isn't going to be releasing any API or other low-level support tools for somebody else to roll their own.

When I was doing hand-held computer development 15 years ago, my experience with custom OEM hardware like this was not good. By the time I cracked the API nut and then tweaked my code for the custom hardware bits, the OEM was out of business. Happened three times.

I guess what I'm saying is ESU is likely using somebody else's hardware - a somebody else selling to the developer market - and writing a custom MRR interface, while remaining 100% dependent on the 3rd party for the hardware. But it's a difficult market with short product life cycles. I'm not optimistic about product longevity.

[DKS]

Pricing:

http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ESU50113ECoSMobileControlIIRemoteControlHandsetw/LANCableMini-A.aspx

http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ESU50114ECoSMobileControlIIRemoteControlHandset.aspx

[wcfn100]

I don't see the hardware as any more of an issue than the Digitrax's throttles (maybe 15 years ago but not now).  And they say right on the website that they will publish the APIs. There will be a Digitrax/Loconet version 4 hours after the release.

This could easily put and end to handheld we have now.

Jason

[C855B]

I don't see the hardware as any more of an issue than the Digitrax's throttles (maybe 15 years ago but not now).

I do. With good reason. I would even offer that hardware product lives in the Android/iOS market sector are an order of magnitude worse than what I experienced with PalmOS and WinMobile (or PocketPC or whatever name-du-jour MS put on it). I still think there's a big OEM supply chain risk here.

And they say right on the website that they will publish the APIs.

Ah... you're right. In the FAQs. Thanks.

There will be a Digitrax/Loconet version 4 hours after the release.

Definite maybe. It's a sure bet it won't be me. My coder days are long over with.

Time will tell with this. I like the product on paper, and there appears to be price parity with Digitrax. In the meanwhile, I'm still collecting gently used iPhones as WiThrottle nodes.

[pjm20]

"and if you are a grunt facing enemy armor, the A-10 was probably the prettiest site you'd ever hope to see (with the exception of your Mom and your girlfriend.)"

Or an Abrams... sorry, but I couldn't resist.

[wcfn100]

My coder days are long over with.

I always say that too and then stuff like this comes out.   Hopefully I can fill the void trying to teach my 5yo lego NXT. 

Jason

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The EngineDriver (used in conjunction with JMRI) app for Android is by far the best throttle I've ever used, DCC manufacturer's or otherwise. Hopefully the WiiThrottle catches up to it soon,

Phil

Yup!

Although, I have found that I've stopped using it when I have a "standard" throttle around. I like the tactile feedback available with knobs.

That said, building an Android based platform independent JMRI throttle might just be the million dollar model railroad idea... I wonder how ESU does with that thing.

But I agree, being used to the "polish" of tech from Apple (and even the PC world, to an extent), DCC hardware all feels very under engineered and designed.

[tappertrainman]

Looks like roughly at least as much computing power as an iPhone4, which should be plenty of power for model railroad use.  I agree it will be interesting to see where the open API goes.  I heard that the ESU version probably won't be available until later this year, but another manufacturer might be working out an agreement for a licensed version (or something like that, I didn't get all the details).

[TiVoPrince]

Cheap
computer hardware exists everywhere. I'm kind of surprised that a command station replacement module that hooks up via USB to a computer has not surfaced yet.

While throttles and associated interfaces were proprietary the system remained firmly closed. With JMRI/Engine Driver allowing phones to act as throttles over Wi-Fi there seems to be very little barrier left to an open-source command station.

I would not be the least bit surprised if an open-source command station does eventually appear as someone's senior school project from an electrical engineering programme...

[wcfn100]

I'm somewhat at a loss to the advantage of an open source command station.

I also wonder what happened to the Digitrax wifi module from 2012.  That was going to allow the user to skip the bloating of having to use JRMI for phone throttles.


Jason

[davefoxx]

Yup!

Although, I have found that I've stopped using it when I have a "standard" throttle around. I like the tactile feedback available with knobs.

This.

[reinhardtjh]

I'm somewhat at a loss to the advantage of an open source command station.

I also wonder what happened to the Digitrax wifi module from 2012.  That was going to allow the user to skip the bloating of having to use JRMI for phone throttles.


Jason

It was the 3rd party producing the software. They never got it finished from what I read various places online.

[conrail98]

I'm somewhat at a loss to the advantage of an open source command station.

I also wonder what happened to the Digitrax wifi module from 2012.  That was going to allow the user to skip the bloating of having to use JRMI for phone throttles.


Jason

There's an OpenDCC project: http://www.opendcc.de/index_e.html

If I understand correctly, the Digitrax item hit issues within the FCC for wifi access and licensing costs thereof. I've heard that happen to more then one DCC or related manufacturer. Also, I think as Arduinos/Raspberry Pis progress in size and power output, that could be the start of OSS command stations. I'm already looking at that for signaling outside of needing it hooked up to block detectors, etc.,

Phil