GHB Brass PRR L1

[VonRyan]

I don't know about getting an L1, but I certainly will starting saving up for an E6.
I like that GHB is looking to produce models of engines that we're either never produced, or only available through kits and conversions.


-Cody F.

[sizemore]

Shameless plug.  PRR brass, RF&P 4-8-4... How about a Western Maryland Potomac?

We gotta stick together brother. I second this nomination!

The S.

[Dave V]

Before someone starts bashing SPFs for not putting their money where their mouths are, I think it's worth noting that we all recognize that there is a PRR brass steam market.  $700-ish seems on the low end of par for almost any PRR steamer on eBay regardless of how used it might be.  I know I've been vocal in the ubiquitous K4 debate that they do exist in brass...how badly do you want one?

That said, the lack of Athearn/Kato/Spectrum quality PRR steam at similar prices...when everything UP or C&O ever ran seems to be available N scale RTR in plastic/die cast...continues to be a legitimate point of contention when the HO market is completely saturated with non-brass PRR steam.  PRR's uniqueness is both its greatest appeal and its greatest curse, at least in N scale.

That said, I'm very glad GHQ is doing this.  I likely won't need one, ironically because I already run a GHQ L1s that has served me reliably for over a decade!  That E6 has my attention though!  They were almost nonexistent on the Middle Division in my era, but they were such good looking engines!

[Bob Bufkin]

That E6 would fit the bill for a local with a couple of non a/c P70s on your Middle Division. 

[chicken45]

Before someone starts bashing SPFs for not putting their money where their mouths are, I think it's worth noting that we all recognize that there is a PRR brass steam market.  $700-ish seems on the low end of par for almost any PRR steamer on eBay regardless of how used it might be.  I know I've been vocal in the ubiquitous K4 debate that they do exist in brass...how badly do you want one?

That said, the lack of Athearn/Kato/Spectrum quality PRR steam at similar prices...when everything UP or C&O ever ran seems to be available N scale RTR in plastic/die cast...continues to be a legitimate point of contention when the HO market is completely saturated with non-brass PRR steam.  PRR's uniqueness is both its greatest appeal and its greatest curse, at least in N scale.

That said, I'm very glad GHQ is doing this.  I likely won't need one, ironically because I already run a GHQ L1s that has served me reliably for over a decade!  That E6 has my attention though!  They were almost nonexistent on the Middle Division in my era, but they were such good looking engines!

I believe you meant to say "GHB" in that last paragraph. 
Dave's right.  $700 is a lot of cizzash, but it's on the lower end and looks to be a great runner AND has DCC AND is sound ready. The GHQ kit is nice, but it looks like a hippo when next to my K4. Of course, the question is, "it's nicer, but is it seven hundred dollars nicer?"

Bachmann made a kickass mallet. Maybe they will do a Pennsy HH1 next. It's not a Pennsy pureblood, but the LifeLike one is accurate, and has DCC and sound and is RTR.

[Dave V]

Well, crap.  I don't know why I read "GHB" but thought "GHQ."  So two different companies.  Wow.  I need more oxygen up here.

I was wondering why GHQ would leave the pewter market to start building brass...

Still, makes me wish GHB had gone after a different class to start...one that can't be obtained as (relatively) easily as the L1s.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I WANT AN FEF
I WANT A SANTA FE NORTHERN
I WAS A SANTA FE 3800
I WANT I WANT I WANT




LET ME WHINE SOME MORE SO I CAN RUIN YOUR THREAD.......................................

How about you don't?

[towl1996]

Let's add this up, a 700 dollar loco + company with no N history + an existing kit with a proven mechanism = No Sale

I'm sure most SPF's have the GHQ kits built or sitting on the bench, as I do, so it's hard to justify the purchase. I wish they wouldn't have led with the L1, I'd rather see them cut their teeth on one of those proposed 4-8-4's.  Hopefully all goes well and they get to the E and G. Time will tell.

[delamaize]

How about you don't?

what he said. 

Let's add this up, a 700 dollar loco + company with no N history + an existing kit with a proven mechanism = No Sale

I'm sure most SPF's have the GHQ kits built or sitting on the bench, as I do, so it's hard to justify the purchase. I wish they wouldn't have led with the L1, I'd rather see them cut their teeth on one of those proposed 4-8-4's.  Hopefully all goes well and they get to the E and G. Time will tell.

this is the attitude that ensures they fail.

[VonRyan]

Let's add this up, a 700 dollar loco + company with no N history + an existing kit with a proven mechanism = No Sale

I'm sure most SPF's have the GHQ kits built or sitting on the bench, as I do, so it's hard to justify the purchase. I wish they wouldn't have led with the L1, I'd rather see them cut their teeth on one of those proposed 4-8-4's.  Hopefully all goes well and they get to the E and G. Time will tell.

By the time I even knew the L1 kits existed, let alone decided to model PRR, they were already rare and super expensive. So I don't own one. I don't even own a Kato Mikado.

Plus for someone like me, it would take me a lifetime to finish the kit, and even then I probably wouldn't be happy with how it turned out. But of course, that's just me.
That being said, I can't afford the L1, and I'd need to start saving up now to buy myself an E6. I hope GHB doesn't run into any trouble and we get to see the E6 and G5 made. Maybe we'll even get lucky and they'll decide to do a D class, and maybe even P5 and B1 electrics.


-Cody F.

[draskouasshat]

How about you don't?

whats that quote im looking for...................... its right on the tip of my tongue.....

OH!!! whats good for the goose is good for the gander right???

cant we all just be friends??

[draskouasshat]

Before someone starts bashing SPFs for not putting their money where their mouths are, I think it's worth noting that we all recognize that there is a PRR brass steam market.  $700-ish seems on the low end of par for almost any PRR steamer on eBay regardless of how used it might be.  I know I've been vocal in the ubiquitous K4 debate that they do exist in brass...how badly do you want one?

in my opinion, youre completely wrong. Just because one shows up on ebay once in a blue moon doesnt mean a market saturated with the same model will sell for the same amount.  it just means a few of the pennsy modelers is able to fork out a chunk of change for a single model from a smaller run thats older and rare. The same goes for an FEF or Santa Fe northern. Theyre getting harder to find and are selling for higher prices because of it. You cant do market research from ebay sales. Hell ive seen a few K4s actually sit on there for a while(yes i just said that), and i dont think they were at bad prices at all!! If you want to go that route, go take a look at the early Atlas 2-8-2 mikados on the bay. I have been buying a few over the last few months as i turn them into early ATSF Light Mikados. I have watched them go from $20 to now $50-$70 on a regular bases. And this is for a 30 year old model with a crap pot metal mech!!!

Ill agree, theres great craftsmanship in brass and it comes at a price. I would venture that he will hopefully sell out on these but i feel if he made more models in the run at a tad lower price, he might do better. But as Dave said, which of you SPFs wants to put the money aside and pay? I know for the models i want that luckily arent PRR, ill do what i can to get what i need.

[Dave V]

in my opinion, youre completely wrong. Just because one shows up on ebay once in a blue moon doesnt mean a market saturated with the same model will sell for the same amount.  it just means a few of the pennsy modelers is able to fork out a chunk of change for a single model from a smaller run thats older and rare. The same goes for an FEF or Santa Fe northern. Theyre getting harder to find and are selling for higher prices because of it. You cant do market research from ebay sales. Hell ive seen a few K4s actually sit on there for a while(yes i just said that), and i dont think they were at bad prices at all!! If you want to go that route, go take a look at the early Atlas 2-8-2 mikados on the bay. I have been buying a few over the last few months as i turn them into early ATSF Light Mikados. I have watched them go from $20 to now $50-$70 on a regular bases. And this is for a 30 year old model with a crap pot metal mech!!!

Ill agree, theres great craftsmanship in brass and it comes at a price. I would venture that he will hopefully sell out on these but i feel if he made more models in the run at a tad lower price, he might do better. But as Dave said, which of you SPFs wants to put the money aside and pay? I know for the models i want that luckily arent PRR, ill do what i can to get what i need.

I don't think we actually disagree on this point.  I'm saying that we recognize there's a brass market, but I meant to imply that the majority of us can't pad our rosters at the prices N scale brass demands.  That said, $700 for a DCC-ready brass engine compared to the existing used market for DC Pennsy brass doesn't seem all that out of line.

Given the paucity of Pennsy brass in N scale outside of eBay, how would you recommend one discern a fair market value?  What very, very few I've ever seen at train shows command similar prices.  As for market saturation, much depends on the actual number produced, and how many of those find their way to the secondary market.  In fact, it may well be that people buy multiples with the intent of flipping them for more on eBay to the panicked SPFs that didn't pre-order.

[CodyO]

I do hope the future brass makes it to market but the L1 is a hard call for me I enjoy building the GHQ kits and since I could possibly get 3 L1s with decoders for the price of a single brass it makes it a very hard call.

In the end I may end up with one to support his efforts and have a nice brass model.

[victor miranda]

I e-mailed GHB and ordered one...

my birthday is far away... so I have no cache of savings.

I'll learn to like beans, I guess.

Are we really going to have a discussion about
model locos and values?

I see three ways to split that hair.

what you get from mass plastic locos
what you get for brass
and how long will it take you to do one
about as good.

most plastic models are good value especially when
this is compared to making your own from scratch.
you can have any steamer you want as long as it is generic?

most brass locos are of the unusual
(I have to ask why PRR h-8 and PRR L-1 are unusual...)
often locos that will not be made in mass plastic.
the price is high because you are paying artisans to work their magic.
you get prize loco and they get a fat bank account.
value is not in the equation (it should be...)

last split...
I only know of one person why has attempted to make an
n-scale loco in brass from scratch. 
there may be others I just don't know about them.
even he decided that driver castings are a good value.

if you want good value to haul mini cars on rail,
get plastic locos.
if you want eye candy, that will cost more.
You do have the option to make your own.
if you suceed in that endeavor, you will find
that brass prices are not unreasonable...


ah Mr. Vollmer?
I think the guys at trainshows look at the prices on the bay...

victor miranda