Killashandra - Irish Nn3

[160pennsy]

I metered both power supplies.

I'm using full-strength Elmer's white "school glue".

I'm applying the fibers normally.
I put them in the screen container, flip the switch, turn upside down and it's hardly anything like the one @160pennsy let me use to grass the rest of the layout.

I also just tested the whole thing with a Radio Shack "12V, 1500mA" power supply and still no dice.

I tried flipping the wires to see if the polarity was wrong, still no dice.

Cody,

I found the following grassinator wiring diagrams online which is what I used when I built my unit. I used the Oatley 12VDC negative ion generator. We also thinned down the white glue about 50/50 with water and first put down a layer of ground foam when we did the initial static grass at Danville, VA. You also have to hold the metal screen fairly close to the surface to get most of the fibers sticking up - kinda trial & error.

[Chris333]

FWIW my home made applicator using the ion generator didn't work either. Still using my bug zapper.

[wazzou]

I built the same one 160pennsy illustrated from the instructions provided by John Cubbin at Ztrains. 
I finished it several years ago and the Negative Ion generator was purchased from Electronic Goldmine, in Australia, I believe.
Mine works flawlessly.

[VonRyan]

Cody,

I found the following grassinator wiring diagrams online which is what I used when I built my unit. I used the Oatley 12VDC negative ion generator. We also thinned down the white glue about 50/50 with water and first put down a layer of ground foam when we did the initial static grass at Danville, VA. You also have to hold the metal screen fairly close to the surface to get most of the fibers sticking up - kinda trial & error.

I know we skipped the ground-foam base layer and went right to the static grass.

Mine was built with the same wiring. Only difference is that I used different plugs/socket for the power supply, and soldered instead of wire-nuts, and I didn't use so much excess wire.
And when I just attempted to use mine, I was holding the screen only a half-inch from the layout's surface.

And I didn't buy my ion generator for Oatley. I got mine new off eBay. The Oatley one only make 8kV, the one I bought is supposed to make 9kV.

[peteski]

A static grass applicator is something I have never dabbled in (yet).

Which ion generator did you buy and from where?  Is the strainer's mesh metal and connected to the ion generator? Did you test if the generator produces high voltage?  When it is turned on carefully  move the mesh close to the alligator clip. Can you see a spark jump between them?  This is just very basic troubleshooting.

Electronic Goldmine is in USA.  In the past I pointed @Chris333 to couple of ion generators there in this message.

The entire thread might be worth reading.

[VonRyan]

This is what I bought: https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/252275941534

I know it is getting power because some fibers were reacting.
I just tested for a spark with the 12V, 1500mA (actually meters as about 7.4 amps) but nothing. And no voltage readings between the grounding clip and the mesh, or even the wire itself, or even the solder join where I connected a more flexible wire to the stiff one coming from the generator.

I'm close to just taking everything and throwing it out. No sense in keeping the layout if it can't be finished. I'd just get yelled at for the rest of eternity.

[davefoxx]

I'm close to just taking everything and throwing it out. No sense in keeping the layout if it can't be finished. I'd just get yelled at for the rest of eternity.

C'mon, Cody, don't be ridiculous.  One failed attempt at building a static grass applicator should not equate to such a reaction as throwing the layout away.  As you can see from the posts here, you're not the only person to have trouble from a homebuilt static grass applicator.  Sheesh.

DFF

[VonRyan]

C'mon, Cody, don't be ridiculous.  One failed attempt at building a static grass applicator should not equate to such a reaction as throwing the layout away.  As you can see from the posts here, you're not the only person to have trouble from a homebuilt static grass applicator.  Sheesh.

DFF

I'm just fed up with getting shafted all the time. It seems that no matter what I do I will continually end up getting screwed in one way or another, or all of the above.
Plus, I followed the instructions, I bought the right components, and yet again I end up with yet another pile of junk.
And I can't afford to try and build another. Plus, why waste more money?

[wazzou]

Electronic Goldmine is in USA. 

Like I said, it's been a few years.   
Now that I think about it more, I think the talk I had heard after building mine was that Electronic Goldmine had quit stocking the unit I bought and thus Ztrains subsequently recommended an Australian company as a suitable vendor to buy comparable generators.

[Missaberoad]

Now I apologize in advance if this is going to sound harsh

People fail... Its a fact and its something that you're going to have to get used to.
You will fail as well as me and everyone who tries something, It is an integral part of the learning process
especially in such a varied craft as model making.

We just need to pick ourselves up and hope that next time we fail (which we all will) its in a different way then the last time...

worth listing to...

To quote Steve Smith "Keep your stick on the ice, we're all in this together"

More on topic my next move with the grass applicator would be check the continuity of all the wires from the mesh and the nail to the NIG.
or the continuity of the mesh its self.

Or possibly adding water to the glue will increase its conductivity.

Edit: I want to add in something positive, two things actually. First; you are doing the right thing by asking for help, this is also how we learn. Second; take a step back and look at what you've accomplished so far, it is pretty impressive!

 

[glakedylan]

FWIW

rule 1: if you want an item that is new and in working order, or at least have a guarantee worth the paper it is written on, do not buy from eBay.
rule 2: if what you buy from eBay does not work, file a claim, return it, and get your money back

FWIW

[Dave V]

Cody, the entire universe is not aligned against you to frustrate your every endeavor.  In fact, the universe is wonderfully indifferent to you, or me, or anyone else for that matter.  Perception is key.  If you choose to look at the world through sh!t-colored glasses, sooner or later everything starts to look like a turd.

[peteski]

This is what I bought: https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/252275941534

I know it is getting power because some fibers were reacting.
I just tested for a spark with the 12V, 1500mA (actually meters as about 7.4 amps) but nothing. And no voltage readings between the grounding clip and the mesh, or even the wire itself, or even the solder join where I connected a more flexible wire to the stiff one coming from the generator.

Cody,
First a word of warning. Unless you have a voltmeter designed specifically for high voltages, NEVER try to measure the output voltage of one of those ion generators. With the voltages involved you have a very good chance of "bricking" your multimeter.  Actually with almost 10,000V output you will most certainly fry your meter!   Think before you act.  Mutlimeters usually clearly show the maximum voltages and currents they can safely measure.

The only semi safe way to check the output of an ion generator using average-person's means is to see a spark when bringing the output lead close to the ground lead.  If you see no spark then either the generator is bad or the  low voltage power supply is dead.

If the power supply is working are you sure you are hooking up the ion generator correctly (polarity-wise)?

I don't get that 7.4 amps thing. What exactly are you measuring and how?  Are you using your Ammeter to short out the power supplies output?!  I can't see 7.4 Amps going to the Ion generator.  According to the description (less than 1 Watt), it will consume less than 100mA (0.1 A)  of current at 12V

[VonRyan]

Cody,
First a word of warning. Unless you have a voltmeter designed specifically for high voltages, NEVER try to measure the output voltage of one of those ion generators. With the voltages involved you have a very good chance of "bricking" your multimeter.  Actually with almost 10,000V output you will most certainly fry your meter!   Think before you act.  Mutlimeters usually clearly show the maximum voltages and currents they can safely measure.

The only semi safe way to check the output of an ion generator using average-person's means is to see a spark when bringing the output lead close to the ground lead.  If you see no spark then either the generator is bad or the  low voltage power supply is dead.

If the power supply is working are you sure you are hooking up the ion generator correctly (polarity-wise)?

I don't get that 7.4 amps thing. What exactly are you measuring and how?  Are you using your Ammeter to short out the power supplies output?!  I can't see 7.4 Amps going to the Ion generator.  According to the description (less than 1 Watt), it will consume less than 100mA (0.1 A)  of current at 12V

The 7.4amps is the power supply itself. I've come to learn that no one ever puts the real specs on power supplies. The one i'm using now is a Radio Shack 12v power supply that says 1500mA on the front.

My meter has a volts setting for the thousands place, but it got no reading. The power supply is good and the generator is getting power, and it sorta works, but not much. And no spark.
And as for polarity, I've tried the power supply both ways, and can't tell the difference performance-wise. It must not make a difference.

My grounding pin is a little 1" length of ME code 40 rail.

[wcfn100]

Cody, the entire universe is not aligned against you to frustrate your every endeavor.  In fact, the universe is wonderfully indifferent to you, or me, or anyone else for that matter.  Perception is key.  If you choose to look at the world through sh!t-colored glasses, sooner or later everything starts to look like a turd.

I don't know Dave, he bought two Jaguars.  Something in the universe may be out to get him.


Jason