Question Re Kato & Intermountain's C&NW smoothside cars

[skytop35]

One of the former City dining cars, 6958, got green by 1963.  Here is a video that was shared on the Fuzzyworld 3 forum showing it on the Flambeau 400... no sleeper but an otherwise really nice looking train... interesting rocking at the station stop around 2:40 minutes and again at 3:40 minutes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLG1y_S5KAc

It also must have been converted from steam heat to head end electrical power. It probably was filling in for the regular Bi-Level dining car as they were still in service also. That is one cool video, now I HAVE to model that train. Look for it the next timeMiNi-Modutrak sets up the layout 

[Nato]

           I just received my C&NW set. As mentioned earlier the yellow does look a bit off to me. Right now the best looking example out there in N is on the fairly recent Life Like E Units. However we all know cars and locomotives do sun fade some so the color could represent this.                     My bigger complaint is that KATO has gone back to Un numbered and named cars requiring decaling. This is OK if decals exist. I' am not sure about Northwestern decals (Micro Scale maybe?). Given the fact that I have not yet gotten around to adding the car names or numbers on the dozen or so Walthers cars I purchased factory markings would have been better ,data and photos exist for Kato to use as reference, except I as Bill feels do not believe that any of these car types (built for UP pool) made it into the yellow and green scheme. If they did it might have been the later era simplified one. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[skytop35]

          I just received my C&NW set. As mentioned earlier the yellow does look a bit off to me. Right now the best looking example out there in N is on the fairly recent Life Like E Units. However we all know cars and locomotives do sun fade some so the color could represent this.                     My bigger complaint is that KATO has gone back to Un numbered and named cars requiring decaling. This is OK if decals exist. I' am not sure about Northwestern decals (Micro Scale maybe?). Given the fact that I have not yet gotten around to adding the car names or numbers on the dozen or so Walthers cars I purchased factory markings would have been better ,data and photos exist for Kato to use as reference, except I as Bill feels do not believe that any of these car types (built for UP pool) made it into the yellow and green scheme. If they did it might have been the later era simplified one. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

Nate,

Actually I think I proved at least some cars made it to both schemes. Just not sure if some skipped the early green/yellow scheme or when the repaints occured.

Bill

[mplsjct]

... is it accurate for the shell that Kato used? (e.g.-the older ATSF Kato E8 is beautiful-correct pilot and headlight arrangement for the ATSF E8ms...but has dynamic brakes whereas the ATSF rebuilt E8ms did not)
~Bruce

The shell is correct with the freight style pilot and the lack of dynamic brakes.
According to the Nov/Dec 1973 issue of Extra 2200 South, only the UP, Milw, Southern and SP ordered E8/9s with dynamic brakes.

[jmlaboda]

It also must have been converted from steam heat to head end electrical power. It probably was filling in for the regular Bi-Level dining car as they were still in service also.

There was another video that I can't find now of one of the City diners still in Armor Yellow and Harvest Mist, with CNW lettering.

[spookshow]

My bigger complaint is that KATO has gone back to Un numbered and named cars requiring decaling. This is OK if decals exist. I' am not sure about Northwestern decals (Micro Scale maybe?).

The good news is that Microscale did rerelease their C&NW passenger car decal set #60-859 relatively recently (161 sets in stock). It's a bit different from their previous 60-859 set ("Chicago & Northwestern Passenger Cars 1940+") insofar as it includes silver names and numbers.

Cheers,
-Mark

[Nato]

         That is a very good video. It is great to learn that Micro Scale does have decal's. One of the ACF diners ( I don't remember which one without finding my "400 Story" book) was re built to operate on the Bi-Level 400 train. It received a raised roof, no second level dining inside  to match the height of the long distance Bi-Level Gallery Cars. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[skytop35]

        That is a very good video. It is great to learn that Micro Scale does have decal's. One of the ACF diners ( I don't remember which one without finding my "400 Story" book) was re built to operate on the Bi-Level 400 train. It received a raised roof, no second level dining inside  to match the height of the long distance Bi-Level Gallery Cars. Nate Goodman (Nato).

The Bi Level Diners were not built from the ACF "Cities" Diners. They were built from the original 1941 Pullman diners from the first streamlined Twin Cities 400. There were two built, one for the Flambeau 400 and one for the Peninsula 400. You are correct in that they had raised roofs but the seating was still at standard height of the original car.

[CBQ Fan]

Are there any good online sources of information for the C&NW bilevel cars used in intercity trains?  I just assumed they were normal commuter cars used for whatever reason.  And maybe that is the case.  Ian curious but not enough to spend money on C&NW book.

[spookshow]

Are there any good online sources of information for the C&NW bilevel cars used in intercity trains?  I just assumed they were normal commuter cars used for whatever reason.  And maybe that is the case.  Ian curious but not enough to spend money on C&NW book.

Might be able to find some useful info here -

http://www.kls2.com/~karl/rr/cnw/commuter-bilevels.html
http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw179a1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_and_North_Western_Transportation_Company
http://www.kls2.com/~karl/rr/cnw/cnw-commuter-1972.html
http://bn9900.hubpages.com/hub/Metra-Chicagolands-Commuter-Service

Cheers,
-Mark

[Nato]

      It is hard to tell the Long Distance Bi-Levels from the commuter cars on the exterior. Inside though reclining coach seats were used in pairs on the lower level and single upstairs in the gallery. If I recall there were also parlor seats in either two or four cars. Bill would have better information. Amquack (Trak) later used long distance cars painted in a phase I type scheme on one of their Illinois trains which if I remember also was involved in a derailment. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[skytop35]

The intercity bi-level coaches (numbered 700-709) are indeed hard to tell from the 4 window Pullman Standard commuter coaches. The reason was simple, if intercity passenger service was discontinued, the cars could easily be converted to commuter service by replacing the seats. An interesting fact is that the doors on the intercity cars did not open fully like the commuter cars because there were luggage racks on the inside of each side of the center door.

Other bi-level cars are coach-parlor car #600, coach-bar-lounge #903 and full parlor #6400 (converted to commuter car #225 in 1966). False roof cars were diners #6953 & #6954. Also baggage-RPO-tavern-lunch counter car #7601 and baggage-tavern-lunch counter car #7602.

[CBQ Fan]

Might be able to find some useful info here -

http://www.kls2.com/~karl/rr/cnw/commuter-bilevels.html
http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw179a1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_and_North_Western_Transportation_Company
http://www.kls2.com/~karl/rr/cnw/cnw-commuter-1972.html
http://bn9900.hubpages.com/hub/Metra-Chicagolands-Commuter-Service

Cheers,
-Mark

Good info.  I have seen most go it, looking for info on bi-level intercity.  . Those are interesting cars.