Gold Metal Models (GMM) question

[eja]

Before I drive myself closer to the loony bin by attempting to use GMM stanchions and brass wire to replace handrails on a Kato loco (there's that word again), can anyone comment on how difficult this is do.  How good does your eyesight have to be?  How did you hold things in place and keep them aligned while soldering them together ?

I would like to do this but only if I don't drive myself completely insane i the process.


Thanks in advance,


eja

[superturbine]

I personally think they are a snap.  Sure you are going to loose a couple, but you have plenty.

Also I usually just superglue mine in place.  If you are going to solder them use TIX flue. 

[Scottl]

I've never done it, but if I were going to, I would tape the stanchions and wire to a hardboard, fine tune the position and then solder.  I would actually consider thin ACC, as even the best soldering work might show under the paint (I know there will be lots of comments about soldering and flux, etc... yes I know it can be well done).  The joint and handrails will need to be treated with care, regardless of the assembly material.

[superturbine]

Ah, no not on a steam engine. Install the stanchions on the boiler, unless you have a complex bend (handrail go around the front of the smoke box door) then install the wire through the stanchions.  You can still make minor adjustment to the stanchions locations to straighten the handrail. 

If you have a complex bend.  Install the wire through the stanchions you can with stanchions installed on the wire.  Once the boiler stanchions are installed you can install the other stanchions while attached to the wire.  See max's 4-6-2 build for a recent example.

[Scottl]

Is he doing a diesel or steam? 

[peteski]

I have not done that particular job but I do lots of miniature work. Good magnification is vital for this. I have an Optivisor for this kind of work and I wouldn't give it up for anything else.  Very bright illumination of your workbench is also vital for this kind of work. I also have a circular fluorescent magnifier lamp, but since I started using Optivisor, I rarely use the magnifier in that lamp.

[superturbine]

Oh.... #!:';÷$&!  Your right!  I have a one track mind!!  When re-reading it does sound like a diesel.....OK if Diesel follow Scottl instructions!!

SORRY

[eja]

I am considering doing this on a Kato SD45


eja

[craigolio1]

I've done it a few times and I've refined my method a little.  Here's what I've settled on.

Drill out the holes in the sills and fill them with the smallest styrene rod you can find.  .015 I think?

Drill a #78 hole everywhere you want a stanchion. 

The instructions say to bend the tops of the stanchions around the wire.  I just cut them off so they will not stick up above the  wire when soldered in place.  Bending them is just a waste of time for me.

Bend the bottom of the stanchion and stick one in each hole.  The tiny hole holds them in place enough that they can be soldered with out falling out, getting stuck on the tip of the iron, or burning you fingers trying to hold them.  Not gluing them allows adjusting and removal for painting.

Tin the ends of all of the stanchions.  This can be done off the model if you think you'll melt something.  But I find it easier once on the model, as long as the sill is separated from the shell.   I just get a tiny blob on the end of the tip and draw it along the top of each one.  You don't have to even touch the iron to them.  The blob leaves just a tiny bit on the flat part of the top and that's enough.

Cut a piece of wire longer than you need to do all of your bends at each end.  I use .008 phosphor bronze wire because it stays straight.  .010 brass?  Not so much. .006 brass?  Don't even go there.  Once on the model you can bump the bronze and it holds it's shape.  It comes coated with some kind of clear so I sand it a little with 600 grit paper, or any really fine paper, until it's bright.

The first soldering is done at either end of the the longest row of stanchions that are all the same height.  Hold your wire up and apply a little liquid flux where the first stanchion will be attached and use you tiny little blob to heat the joint.  I find touching the iron to the stanchion can knock it out of plumb and the blob prevents this.  With the wire held perfectly horizontal, or as best you can, solder the stanchion at the far end.  It really important to get these two stanchions plumb as they set the process for all the others.  You can make tiny adjustments to each end by reheating the joint until you are satisfied.

When you're happy and things are plumb and horizontal, repeat with all of the others in between.  Then make your bends and carry on down the row.

Look at it from a distance and make sure everything is plumb and horizontal.

Remove them, paint them, put them back on LAST.

I don't like CA because it's permanent as far as fine tuning goes, but not at all as far as fat fingers go, or when removing for paint.  The contact surface is so small, it can't make a great bond.

It took me longer to type this than it would to do one side of a loco.  I type slowly.

Here is my first attempt.

[Puddington]

Nice GMD-1  !!!!!! Mine telling us a bit more about that build ?

[Philip H]

Nice GMD-1  !!!!!! Mine telling us a bit more about that build ?

Um yeah! Do show and tell!

[craigolio1]

At the risk of thread jacking, I won't post photos right now, but there are 43 of them on my Photobucket page.  From start to finish you can basically see how I did the whole thing.

http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/craigolio1/library/GMD-1?sort=3&page=1

Here are the basics.

The chassis is a Kato RSC2 which I filed down A LOT to fit into the bodies of the SW900s.  I had to remove the light board, the power pick ups on both sides, the clips that hold in the motor on the bottom, and I filed off a lot on the top as well.  It's very fragile.  I'm still working on getting power to a Digitrax DZ121 (I think that's what it is, I painted it black) that will go in the cab.

For the bodies I started with three Life Like SW900.  One hood for the long hood and another narrowed and shortened for the short hood.  The doors were rearranged and some added to the short end.  Donors came from the third shell.  The taper had to be re-worked as it's not as narrow as an SW.  The cab is made from the fronts of two SW cabs with the roofs removed and a new one scratch built to get the correct profile.  The walkways are two SW pieces joined together to get the correct length.  The pilots and steps are scratch built.  The handrails are GMM, other details are from Miniatures by Eric.

At this point I need to get the fuel tank installed, make some truck side frames, and fix the power pick up issue, or I can just wait for Rapido (not announced but there was a computer rendering with a N scale coupler so I think that's a big hint) to release theirs, but I feel I need to finish this one before then just to have the closure.  I might leave the truck side frames though and just buy Rapido parts when they come around.  All of my attempts were crap.

I should note also that Miniatures by Eric has done a GMD1 kit, with B-B trucks.  I've never seen one as it's not on his website but I would think that would be the place to start these days.  It wasn't around when I started this one which was almost ten years ago.

I work very slowly.

On a historical note, I chose number 1000, and in this paint, because it is the unit that pulled the last train of lumber out of the Youbou mill at Cowichan Lake British Columbia.  The track conditions were so bad they could only half load the flat cars.  They switched to trucks and shortly after the mill closed for good.  My Grandfather worked for BCFP in the camps, my other Grandfather worked for BCFP at that mill, my Dad and all of my Uncles worked in the mill.  In it's heyday, that area was a huge producer and I used to watch the CPR and CNR trains pull their loads through the town of Lake Cowichan.  Good memories.  That's what made me want to model Vancouver Island.  Albeit with BCR running it but that's another story.

Thanks for the interest.  Makes me want to get back to work on it.

Craig

[randgust]

I've done three Kato SD45's and an IM SD45-2, but not using stanchions - using .010 wire for the rails and .015 for the stanchions.

Everything soldered, and put on after the body is painted.

The beauty of the wire is that you can really get things straight and square, then trim it back, touch up the joints with an abrasive disk edge if necessary.  I find the .010 wire to be incredibly durable, takes a hit and you can bend it right back, holds paint really well.

I also take a completely different approach - I'll do the entire rail end-to-end, get it adjusted straight, then put one stanchion in the dead-center, adjust to height, then 'divide and conquer' each undone area in half.   Getting the long hood rails completely straight and square on SD45-2 is a challenge, as the ATSF schemes have yellow rails against a blue body.   This is about all I have handy online - first sequence shows the 3 Katos: 

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Nothing against stanchions (I made my own etched set for the CF7 kits, but that's a pre-etched set per side with a drilling jig to get everything on straight) but I find them next to impossible to get on straight for a long hood unit like an SD45.   NOT bending over the tops at all is probably the best tip you've got there, that's usually where I see efforts go haywire. The only advantage that wire has compared to that method is that a long wire stanchion can usually be braced at the top to keep it straight while you are adjusting the handrail height on it, and that's a tricky maneuver to do if the stanchion is already short.

In my case I've decided that getting the contrasting yellow rail DEAD STRAIGHT against the body is more important than the stanchion cross-section, when that essentially visually blending into the hood.   When ATSF went to yellow stanchions  as the standard scheme, different case entirely - those show up.

[ednadolski]

Before I drive myself closer to the loony bin by attempting to use GMM stanchions and brass wire to replace handrails on a Kato loco (there's that word again), can anyone comment on how difficult this is do.  How good does your eyesight have to be?  How did you hold things in place and keep them aligned while soldering them together ?

I would like to do this but only if I don't drive myself completely insane i the process.

I've long believed that there are few (if any) other ways that can improve the appearance of an N scale diesel as dramatically as scale wire handrails.  I wouldn't say that there is anything particularly "difficult", rather it is more about being willing to take the time to learn, without looking for instant results. 

My preference is for 0.008" phosphor bronze wire, as I find it more durable than brass, and it solders well.  When soldering, be sure to keep the tip of the iron clean.   Also please see this thread for a few additional thoughts.

Ed

[randgust]

One thing I do and it probably makes the biggest difference - no matter what your preference in materials - is to clean everything.   I run my wire through 1000-grit sandpaper before it is cut - just draw it through folded sandpaper in my fingers repeatedly.  That won't distort or bend it.   I also hit any etched parts I'm going to solder with the wire brush in the dremel.   That's 90% of the battle on getting solder to work right in these situations.