Best Of New Brass EP-2 assembly & Mod clinic

[JanesCustomTrain]

Just get rid off what ever is written UNDER E-3 and you re good to go. Just scratch it off. Place the Milwaukee underneath it and go from there. It's looking bloody great mate.

Jane

[bbussey]

Interesting tag line Jane.

[peteski]

A Railwire member contacted me privately and very kindly asked my to consider....

Not accepting this....


Clearly, in this side-by-side, you can see that the E3 decal is not compressed like the MILWAUKEE herald is.

That was my thought exactly (since I first saw the decal on your model).  Thanks for confirming it scientifically.    Now the question is whether the decal producer would be willing to fix the artwork? If you strike out with the decal manufacturer and if you want, PM me and we can discuss the details of getting the correct decal made for the side lettering.  My other projects can wait just a bit longer to be worked on. 

Do you know what font is used for the lettering, and is it available commercially?  After all the time and effort you put into this model, I can't stand anything else but perfection. 

OH, I also don't care for the white shadow around the letters. That is caused by a a slight misalignment of the white ink layer.  Alps printers can often do that, but there is usually a way to remedy that.

[u18b]

OK.

I think I've made another small discovery.

In defence of the decal maker, this is pretty subtle.  And unless my eyes are playing tricks on me because of various angles, here is what I see....

First, I went back to this photo and cropped it.
http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-at-Seattle-Union-Station-1950s.jpg

Now, study the following shots.

Here is the bare brass.  Notice there is a double row of rivets 1/3 of the way up.  That is a reference mark.
You can also see by comparing to prototype photos that the handrail is compressed slightly.  It definitely does not go to the very bottom edge like the prototype.



Here is the Railroad Fair E3.  Remember, this was the railroad's first attempt at this scheme.  We already know they went from 6 chrome stripes (this loco) to 5 stripes on the others. 

For reference purposes, notice:
The bottom corner of the box herald is at the bottom rivet line.
The top corner of the box herald is above the double rivet line.
The red terminates ABOVE the corner of the box.
The E3 lettering is slightly compressed but not as compressed as the MILWAUKEE lettering.



Now look at this crop of E2.
Not only are the pantographs red, and the gray almost black.....

But look at how the red terminates BELOW the corner of the box.
The red also looks a bit closer to the double rivet line.
Also, the E2 does not look as compressed as the one above.



In fact, the E2 lettering looks pretty close to the decal.


Now, the shortfall of this analysis is that the viewing angles are not the same.  However....

If we assume (I know, we are assuming) that the BOX HERALD is the same bronze casting....
Then it would appear that they lowered the red line just a little bit.

So it is possible that the decals are fairly accurate for the 5-stripe version.

But this 6-stripe version has some other slight changes.

[u18b]

Also, when I go back to this photo...

http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-at-Seattle-Union-Station-1950s.jpg

I see the red separation at the BOTTOM edge of the black handrail on the Cab hoods.

So it appears they may have lowered the separation line all around.

[peteski]

So many variations... 

If you still would like to shrink the height of the "E3" in that decal - let me know.

The center section in the last photo you posted doesn't have yellow stripe on the bottom edge (and it seems to sit higher than the the other sections. 

[u18b]

Thanks for the offer pete.

I'll check in with the decal maker and see if I can make contact with him.  I sent him an email Friday night.  Hopefully he will get back with me.


As for the missing yellow stripe on E2....

DaveFoxx suggested adding a strip a few pages back, and Jon (Central.Vermont) was the one who spotted the prototype and posted the observation that the yellow stripe was NOT on the boiler room itself, but rather was some piece of sheet metal added.  At some point later, that piece occasionally went missing.

That was an important observation.

So yes, the boiler room IS indeed high.  It should not be even with the frame without the sheet metal added.

[u18b]

While we have a pause, let me get some opinions on the wheels.

What I DON'T want to do:  Paint the entire outside surface of the wheel rust.
The reason is that (to me) it always looks messy since the paint chips around the edges.  Maybe from going through turnouts or from cleaning, it just does not take long for the wheel to start looking ugly (once again IMHO).

So I could paint the inner area- leaving a shiny silver edge (tread).
So the center and recessed area as in this photo...



Or, does anyone know how to truly blacken the wheels.
I think they are chrome plated.  Would gun blue darken them?

[peteski]

Ron,
the wheels are most likely brass plated with either nickel-silver or nickel.  At least that has been my experience.

Jax chemicals offers a wide range of chemical blackeners (better than the A-West Blacken-It stuff).  DKS introduced TRW members to Jax. See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28778.msg305026#msg305026

[mmagliaro]

+1 on the Jax.

I would try first just cleaning them good with alcohol and a brush, then dip them in the Jax in a little cup and see what happens.   Forget trying to apply it with a brush.  I have attempted that - dabbing the stuff over and over onto a metal surface.  It only partially works and never really makes a good, durable blackened layer.

I have found that chemical blackeners work even on plated wheels like that.  You just have to get them really clean and dip them.   Dip them standing up so just the wheel is in the chemical, not the whole axle.   A blackened axle isn't "ruined", but it seems like a bad idea to expect a roughened, blackened axle to spin as smoothly as a shiny plated one.

One other thing.  You might try mixing the Jax 50/50 with water in a little cup and see if that works.  Why?
The blackening is actually oxidizing the metal.
If the blackener reacts with your particular metal very quickly, sometimes it can make a heavily oxidizes black layer that just flakes off, almost like it's eating away a layer of the metal and then flaking it off.   A weaker chemical can sometimes penetrate deeper into the metal, but more "gently", so you get a sturdier finish.

If it doesn't work at half strength, you have nothing to lose.  You can always try it full-strength after that.

NO MATTER WHAT - Make sure you wash the parts off in alcohol and brush them with a soft brush.  I like to use a
soft-bristle toothbrush (not something too stiff, but stiffer than a paint or makup brush).   If you don't get all that
chemical out of there, it will keep reacting over time and create corrosion and rust on the metal.
I repaired a guy's brass steam loco where somebody had blackened his wheels and gotten the chemical into
the axle/bearing area.  Over time, it had created a swelled layer of greenish corrosion right down in the bearing
and actually siezed the axle so it was stuck fast in there.

//////////////////////////////
Option 2:  You could try using Neolube on them.  It will go on easily with a brush, make a nice gray/gunmetal grayish/black finish, and it is conductive.  So you can do the whole wheel.  After a little running, it will wear off the treads anyway, but never completely, so the wheels end up with a nice weathered, realistic look to them.    If you have an insulated wheel, don't get a whole coat of the stuff bridging the insulated center.  It's conductive and it will short.  Just do the metal areas outside the plastic center and then "dot" the axle tip.

[u18b]

I wonder what process Atlas & Kato use for blackened wheels.

In gun blue-ing, I'm pretty sure the main ingredient is some form of selenium.

I wonder if it would work on Nickel silver.

But I will give these other products a try.

[peteski]

Max,
blackening agents do not blacken the metal by oxidizing it - like Ron said, the blackening agent which is dissolved inthe solution (something like selenium salts) gets deposited on the metal surface.  The solution is acidic, so there is some etching that takes place, but AFAIK, it is not oxidation.

[u18b]

No modelling to report.  But a few miscellaneous.

I've been thinking about the boiler smoke stack.

It was not present at the Fair.  Should I remove it?

I remember saying before that I was nervous to attempt anything because- if it was surface mounted- no problem.

But if removing the stack left a big HOLE, then that would indeed be a problem.

I did some peeking inside at the room.
Hole is definitely there.  Stack is a casting that fits into the hole.

So I don't want to remove it- even though it was not present at the Fair.

Then I got to thinking--- was E-3 always without a stack?

Searching through my photos, I finally found a shot of E-3 in the same scheme back in service WITH the jack.

So........ I started guessing, the removed the sand boxes and the boiler (the whole thing- not just the stack).  And what do those have in common?  Weight.

It would appear they made this heavy loco as light as possible for the Fair.

Sand boxes and boiler were replaced later.

[u18b]

I'm in a slight holding pattern right now.

There are a couple of things I COULD do (like grabirons and rails), but I will wait.

I've left a message with the decal maker explaining my problem.  We'll see how that goes.

I also need to order some blackener for the wheels.


So I think I will turn my attention to a few loose ends on other projects for maybe just this week.

I have two repairs for friends waiting.
And then I have a Little Joe to attend to.
And lastly, I never finished up on those Pennsy Silverliners.

So this may be loose end week.  I'll work on that list in that order.

And then when I have more to report, I'll come back to the EP-2.
These decals are a setback- but I think getting it right will make a positive difference.

[u18b]

Short update.

Todd decal guy has not returned 2 emails and two phone calls so far.  I still hope he will come through.

I know Peteski has offered decal help.  I hate to put anyone to a lot of trouble.
All we really need is new/smaller lettering.  All I'll be re-doing is the boiler room.  The cabs I will go with as they are (they are fine).  But I will strip and repaint the boiler room.

THE MILWAUKEE ROAD decal is probably OK.

But E-3 needs to be compressed slightly and maybe just a tiny tad smaller.

And the EP-2 class decal needs to be smaller.

I emailed the Milwaukee Rd historical society asking if they had any Milw Rd fonts in Windows Tru-type fonts.
He said he knew of none.
I think that would have made decal work easier.