Author Topic: Athearn Big Boy Improvements  (Read 6507 times)

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robert3985

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Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« on: August 23, 2013, 03:24:20 AM »
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I really like the Athearn Big Boys and Challengers.  They run like Swiss watches, and with TSU-4664N decoders in 'em, they sound pretty good too.

But, being the slobbering Big Boy and Challenger fanatic that I am, there are certain things about the models that need fixin'.

Since I will actually be using these models (I have 5 BB's and 5 Challengers so far) as a vital part of my operations scheme, I think it'd be a good idea to both add some details and individualize 'em...as well as make them more accurate for my time period (1949 thru 1956).

After looking them over for a long time, I've decided that there are some easy mods, some not-so-easy mods and one modification I'm not so sure is even possible without a total chassis rebuild.

Here's a list of the easy Big Boy mods in no particular order:
(1) Improve the screw-in-the-stack appearance
(2) Drill out the second stack
(3) Convert ALL Big Boys to the modern aftercoolers (no handrail mounted aftercoolers on the pilot and, if necessary, buy and install the Athearn behind-the-pilot aftercooler part)
(4) Shorten the drawbar
(5) Since my time of the year on my layout is early/mid Summer, I gotta do something about the cab windows, which are very seldom closed while running in warm weather.
(6) Remove the poorly positioned "UNION PACIFIC" on the tenders and use Micro-Scale UP aluminum decals to put it where it should be.
(7) Replace the McHenry coupler with an MT Z-scale coupler
(8.) Replace that horrid yellow back-up light with a better color LED
(9) Cover up the coal load with a real coal load.

Here's a list of more difficult mods that require a bit of precise cutting and filing:
(1) Make the vent hatch on the cab roof in open position.  All the pics and videos I see of Big Boys has this open, even in the dead of a Wyoming Winter.
(2) Find or make wind deflectors for the side cab windows
(3) Open the vents on the sides of the cab (at least one)
(4) Hollow out the steam generator bracket so it's not a solid piece but has legs.

Here's a list of things to do that require fabrication/replacement/addition of parts:
(1) Make brake cylinders for the trailing trucks, along with their respective mounting protocols.
(2) Make grabs for the domes, which includes shaving off the cast-on POS's.
(3) Detail the stack/whistle/bell area, which will include shaving off some piping and replacing it, fabricating tiny grabs and shaving off the cast-on ones, making valve handles for three valves on top, making electrical junction boxes and adding conduit from hand rails to number boards, and conduit from number boards to classification lights.  Air line from top of bell to wherever it's supposed to go...there may be more once I get really into it   :D
(4) Replace steam generator with a Precision Scale lost wax brass piece, and add the three or four lines going into and out of it, as well as at least one junction box.
(5) Add piping wherever appropriate of the right size and location along either side of the boiler.
(6) Make drip pans for the cross-compound air pumps, which go under them.
(7) Add the 45 deg. braces to the handrails on the pilot (six of 'em)
(8.) Add both steam line and dual air hoses to be back of the tender.
(9) See if I can do something about the warning light mounting bracket on top of the rear of the tender.
(10) Fabricate and attach the three "hooks" that are on the backside and engineer-side of the tender.
(11) Replace all the dump wheels near the smokebox with etched parts
(12) Detail up the cab interior a bit by painting the backhead, adding a few fabricated brass parts, make and install four seats, and add a crew.
(13) Add canvas curtains, and the associated hardware, to the back of the cab.
(14) Shave off the throttle linkages and replace them with brass, stand-off counterparts

Here's a list of difficult part fabrication and additions:
(1) Research and build a smoke box "bottom" that extends downward and gets rid of the empty space between the smokebox and the trailing truck.
(2) Research and build a "pedestal" that prototypically is what the boiler sits on at the rear engine's cylinders.  This would have to be made so the rear engine still articulates, and it would get rid of the big airy space that shouldn't be there between the rear engine and the bottom of the boiler.
(3) Research and build the stoker and a representation of the prototype's dual drawbar, and add flexible "hose" between the tender as well as add grabs on the front of the tender.
(4) Develop a boiler attachment scheme that will completely eliminate the screw-in-the-stack, but be almost as easy to remove.  This is going to involve modifying the chassis and the plastic boiler.

Here's a modification that would require the most work:
(1) Articulate the locomotive properly.  This would involve securing the rear engine perfectly centered and at the right angle and height, then fabricating a hinge for the front engine so it would articulate there instead of halfway through its length as it does now.  If I elect to simply un-power the front engine after doing some research to see if that drastically limits the pulling power of the locomotive...and find it doesn't (I have trains that are a maximum length of 9' 5"...about 30ea. 40' cars, a Big Boy and a caboose), then this will be a pretty easy mod.  HOWEVER, if I have to power the front engine, it will involve a lot of work and extensive front engine and chassis re-design and machining.  I don't know if it's worth it.
(2) Second possibility would be to articulate the big steam pipes on the sides of the locomotive so they're inconspicuously jointed, and join the rear of them up with the rear set of cylinders.  It would get rid of that big gap between the tops of the rear cylinders and the end of the steam pipes that is presently the way it is.

Last but not least is paint:
(1) Smokebox and firebox have gotta be painted SP Lettering Gray.  The silver color that most manufacturer's paint UP steamers is totally wrong.  I learned this trick from subscribing to "The Streamliner" which is the UP Historical Society's quarterly magazine.
(2) Certain parts gotta be painted black, such as the bell, the piping back by the firebox and the shiny paint on the tender pedestal (can't figure that one out???).  Drivers and wheel faces need to be airbrushed black too as a base-coat.
(3) Roller bearing journal lids need to be painted aluminum as per prototype practice.
(4) Then, I gotta weather all of my BB's up.  Some will be ready for paintshop, some will have just come out of the paintshop, some will need the Oakite-water spray cleaning UP did very often on these engines and some will be just plain dirty.  Each one different.  Fun!!

So, I actually got started on this project this evening, and I'll post some photos tomorrow or Saturday depending on time. It's not all going to happen at once, but eventually I want all of my engines to be at the same level of detail and accuracy.  Some fabrications will be used as masters after I see if they work, then I'll make molds and cast some parts.

Challengers get the same treatment, except only one of mine is coal-powered, so I need to fabricate a 50's oil bunker top for four of 'em, and a big toolbox for the engineer's side of the tender for all five.  You can bet I'll be making castings to cut down on the labor and time.

Big Boys and Challengers awaiting modifications at Echo Yard:


 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:38:56 AM by robert3985 »

peteski

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 03:39:16 AM »
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Wow Bob!  The amount of details you want to install on this model would be challenging even on an 0 scale model (and would result in a impressive super-detailed 0 scale model). To add all those details to an N scale model is simply mind boggling!  My  :ashat: off to you!

Also, seeing how many of those BBs you own, detailing all of them will probably eat up a big chunk of your life.  ;)  But that's what hobbies are for.  :D
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Chris333

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 04:07:38 AM »
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This guy can help you:

robert3985

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 04:36:19 AM »
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Wow Bob!  The amount of details you want to install on this model would be challenging even on an 0 scale model (and would result in a impressive super-detailed 0 scale model). To add all those details to an N scale model is simply mind boggling!  My  :ashat: off to you!

Also, seeing how many of those BBs you own, detailing all of them will probably eat up a big chunk of your life.  ;)  But that's what hobbies are for.  :D

Yup, that's what hobbies are for.  However, I've done this before in brass, which turned out pretty good.  In actuality, the Athearn models are more accurate in many ways (other than the articulation) than brass Big Boys and Challengers.  The cast-on details on the pilots, boilers, cabs and tenders are much sharper than the brass models, and they run and pull exponentially better than their brass counterparts.  However, the lovely etched, perforated walkways on the brass models is a much better detail than what's on the Athearn models.  I'm still thinking about how to either replace the walkways, or simulate the perforations.

When looking at my list, by tomorrow nght, I'll have all of the easy mods done except replacing the LED (I don't have one of the right color to do that or it'd be done too), and three of the four "more difficult mods" finished. 

Total work time will be around five hours...which isn't bad.

The part that took the longest was accumulating all the reference materials (photos, magazine articles, books and videos) that make this a process of being able to look at a photo or video and see what the real part looked like, then modify the engine or make a new part and stick it on.  I don't have to hunt for the references any longer as I've found everything I need to guide me in this project.

For instance, I didn't know what was typically the habits of engineers and firemen as far as what they did with their windows.  They keep 'em open most of the time except in the dead of Winter.  I suppose the cabs were pretty hot, so the top vent is always open (except when the engine is being washed) to let some of the heat out.  I also learned how the windows slide on their tracks and that when they're slid forward, a slice of them is always visible from the outside.

I'm expecting these to be better looking than my brass superdetailing project in most ways, with an emphasis on the smokebox and cab areas as the eyes seem to be attracted to those areas the most.

Here are some detail photos of my brass Key Big Boy that I overhauled several years ago.  Looks pretty good, but would only pull about a dozen cars.  I sold it two years ago to a collector who wasn't going to run it who lives in Russia.







Probably the most difficult part of the brass model was fabricating the tender's pipe brackets and making the Westinghouse type KM brake pipe vent valve and bracket for the right side of the tender, 'cause the brass model had not modeled that prominent piece of equipment.

I've decided the piping on the Athearn model's tender looks good enough, so that whole thing won't be part of the overhaul.

We'll see if the rest of it goes as quickly.  All the BB's and Challengers will get their drawbars shortened and the screw-in-the-stack taken care of first thing, and all the BB's will get their railing-mounted aftercoolers removed and new Athearn parts put on the pilots which makes them the later post-1949 configuration.  Cab windows come next along with other cab details one at a time depending on how difficult it is.  I'll be modifying the top vent hatch tomorrow as well as the two side vents, and I think it'll be pretty easy...but, we'll see.

So, I plan on having a few of these done up to the point of the chassis re-engineering by the November NMRA Show in Salt Lake City.  The articulation re-engineering will wait until I've got more finished on my modules.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 05:08:02 AM by robert3985 »

peteski

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 01:52:38 PM »
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Bob, the 4023 in your photos looks very realistic!  Just Photoshop some steam and smoke and it would look just like a 1:1 scale loco! Part of the realistic look is also the scenery.  Awesome (and the photos aren't too yellow)!   :D

You might have only spent 5 hours (plus research time) so far (on the easy mods), but if you want to do all the mods you've listed, you'll have to spend at least couple dozen more hours on this fun project. At least for the 1st model. Enjoy!
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unittrain

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2013, 04:38:25 PM »
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Wow I love this kinda of modeling your work is just amazing  :o This is shows just how good N can be when the bar is pushed. Thanks for the insperation 8)

mmagliaro

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 11:38:32 PM »
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If you love this kind of detailed modeling (and you obviously do!) then it is a load of fun, even though the list
of details looks daunting.   Your brass version looked magnificent.

Detailing a steam locomotive is a funny thing.  The more details you put on, and the more accurately you size
and shape them, the more you notice OTHER ones that could be added.    At least, that's how it is for me.

The fact is that the outside of
a steam locomotive is just teeming with "junk".  Boxes, mechanisms, pipes, and controls are all over the place.
The more you do,  and the more subtle ones you choose to add, the more important it is that they be scale sized.
Otherwise, the outside of the engine can start to look like some sort of Dr. Suess machine with controls and
pipes that don't quite look like they belong.

Looking at photos of your other work, I'd say you are more than up to the task of building all the parts on your list.
I will enjoy watching this as you progress.   


peteski

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 10:45:43 AM »
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Hmmm...I wonder if Bill Pearce considers Robert's Big Boy photos, posted here on the forum, good enough for being published in MR magazine?  I think those might look too much like the model is H0, not N.  That might not fly.  :trollface:
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CBQ Fan

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 01:34:20 PM »
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Hmmm...I wonder if Bill Pearce considers Robert's Big Boy photos, posted here on the forum, good enough for being published in MR magazine?  I think those might look too much like the model is H0, not N.  That might not fly.  :trollface:

The only thing worse than that is when someone's model is so good it looks like the real thing.  And then if you try and get it published you are really doing the editor a disservice!!  :o
Brian

Way of the Zephyr

robert3985

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 04:47:29 AM »
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I've had photos published in MR before.  I won the MR photo contest in 1994 with a sunset shot of my Wilhemina Pass module in N-scale.  I've also had photos and articles published in Rail Model Journal.

I'll be having some photos published in Trackside Photos sometimes in the near future if I can get off my butt and send them in!  They'll be of my friend Nate's (Nato) layout.

I apologize for not posting photos here this weekend, but it turned into replace-the-water-pump on my Honda, and I managed to take a nice nick out of my right hand pointy-finger which is making handling the small parts of the cab sorta difficult.

Maybe Monday night.

peteski

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 04:54:59 AM »
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I apologize for not posting photos here this weekend, but it turned into replace-the-water-pump on my Honda, and I managed to take a nice nick out of my right hand pointy-finger which is making handling the small parts of the cab sorta difficult.

Maybe Monday night.

Oh ok Robert, I guess that we'll forgive you (this time).  ;)
I hope that your pointy-finger heals quickly.
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kirmies

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 04:40:49 AM »
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Bob,

I've just come across this thread (as a newby to The Railwire) and would be really interested to hear how you got on with the improvements particularly with the articulation. I'm building a micro-layout of part of Laramie Engine Terminal so sorting out the pivot points may be much easier for me as the engines only have to pull themselves along so the front engines can have the drive removed.

Apologies if the answer to my question is buried somewhere in 'Railwire history' - if it is I can't find it!

Thanks

Peter

robert3985

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 09:33:15 AM »
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Bob,

I've just come across this thread (as a newby to The Railwire) and would be really interested to hear how you got on with the improvements particularly with the articulation. I'm building a micro-layout of part of Laramie Engine Terminal so sorting out the pivot points may be much easier for me as the engines only have to pull themselves along so the front engines can have the drive removed.

Apologies if the answer to my question is buried somewhere in 'Railwire history' - if it is I can't find it!

Thanks

Peter

Peter,
I'be been starting a new business and am not as far along with my BB project as I had planned.  However, I've got the cab finished (except for new numbers and paint), the details scraped off the boiler and smokebox that I want to apply separately, so I have made a bit of progress.

I doesn't help that I've also got a Kato FEF-3 in the same condition on my workbench too!

As for the articulation, it's going to be a complex job, and I haven't really sat down and started to engineer it yet.  I really dislike the way the cab pokes out when going through a curve, rather than the smokebox swinging out, which is leaving me in somewhat of a quandary because I will never be happy with the model until it's articulated like the prototype...with the front engine pulling a goodly share of the load. My conflict is that no matter how detailed everything else is, if it's not articulated properly, I won't be happy with it..so it sits on my workbench like a dead frog pinned to a dissection tray.

Thanks for the reminder that this is a project I need to get going on!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

arbomambo

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 10:13:52 AM »
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I'm FINALLY going to purchase one of the next runs of these!
UP isn't the major player for me, so I just need a few representative UP trains for 1957; a Big Boy pulling reefer drags, a "City of" train with the requisite 4 E units (with a 1957-era FEF for occasional helper service?), and a 'generic' UP mixed freight (haven't determined if this will be pulled by F or GP units-perhaps Bob could offer advice on a standard consist of the era)
 I plan to improve mine to 1957 appearance but certainly won't be doing the major surgery you suggest as the 'difficult' work; however, I would like to accurize the appearance as much as possible, ESPECIALLY as it pertains to paint and weathering. That's what most  of my questions will address.
I'm really looking forward to acquiring one of these and a Challenger may be in my future as well
 Bruce
"STILL Thrilled to be in N scale!"

Bruce M. Arbo
CATT- Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
https://nationalt-traklayout.com/


peteski

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Re: Athearn Big Boy Improvements
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 03:46:30 PM »
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As for the articulation, it's going to be a complex job, and I haven't really sat down and started to engineer it yet.  I really dislike the way the cab pokes out when going through a curve, rather than the smokebox swinging out, which is leaving me in somewhat of a quandary because I will never be happy with the model until it's articulated like the prototype...with the front engine pulling a goodly share of the load.

Then you should ditch the Athearn and go back to brass models.  The Sakatsu Big Boy I have is articulated the way you want: The rear engine is attached to the boiler and the front engine's pivot  point is slightly behind its rear driver. But I'm sure that this type of articulation creates a new set of problems when traveling through unprototypically tight curves most of us have in our N scale trackage (I don.t know as I haven't run it yet).
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