Questions regarding Walthers 50' outside-braced wood auto boxcar

[CVSNE]

I believe the Walthers N scale car is the same or very similar in spotting features to the old MDC HO scale 50-foot single-sheathed car which was based on a WP car.

I cut down one or two of the Walthers cars when I was doing active N scale modeling to create CV/GTW 1-1/2 door cars. Worked pretty well.

Marty

[bbussey]

Utilizing the Walthers model to kitbash the GTW 1½-door car is one of my goals.  What did you use to represent the doors, particularly the ½ door?

I have a pic of the GTW car, but the CV car would be a better fit for me.  What is the number series for the CV cars?

[JMaurer1]

The Concor 1 1/2 door box comes very close to the SP cars, son instead of fighting with the Walthers cars too much, I ended up kitbashing Concor cars into SP wood chip hoppers (remove the roof...instant hopper!). I don't remember what I did with my Walthers cars.

[bbussey]

The Concor 1 1/2 door box comes very close to the SP cars, so instead of fighting with the Walthers cars too much, I ended up kitbashing Concor cars into SP wood chip hoppers (remove the roof...instant hopper!). I don't remember what I did with my Walthers cars.

Makes sense.  For me though, the prototype for that model is before my era.  The (alleged) prototype for the Walthers car just squeaks into my era, so that is the deciding factor.  The 40' cars had longer life, particularly the CV and GTW versions which also happen to be interchanging roads for NH, so I'm more interested in those over an eventual MP or T&P 50-foot model. Originally I was looking at kitbashing a Wabash 40-footer, but going with one of the regional roads instead is a no-brainer.

[nkalanaga]

For replacing the doors on the Walthers car, one may have a problem.  The MT 5 ft doors, from the 40 ft PS-1s, are the right width, but about half a foot too short.  In fact, given the 10-2 IH stenciling on my NP car, the doors seem unusually tall, taller than either the MT or IM 40 ft cars.

[bbussey]

It's been established that the NP scheme is incorrect for the model.  The prototype was indeed a tall car, purposely so in order to accommodate the automobiles of the time period as well as the loaders.

It appears, unless an undec version can be secured, that a pair of doors will have to be flattened before being rubber-molded and cast.  Another issue is that the top and bottom door edges didn't fill entirely during the molding process, so they will have to be fixed before the casting process.  The half-door for 40-foot kitbashes remains an unsolved problem.

[highway70]

I believe the Walthers N scale car is the same or very similar in spotting features to the old MDC HO scale 50-foot single-sheathed car which was based on a WP car.

I cut down one or two of the Walthers cars when I was doing active N scale modeling to create CV/GTW 1-1/2 door cars. Worked pretty well.

Marty

The July 1995 RailModel Journal has an article on 50 ft single sheathed double door box cars.  Includes cars with and without end doors.  A Table with notes   lists cars by railroad and indicates which can be modeled using the MDC HO scale car. Cars were built from 1927-1930. 

A low resolution but readable scan  of the magazine is at:   http://www.trainlife.com/

[bbussey]

That RMJ article has a picture of the GN prototype, which also is different than the Walthers car.  I don't understand why that particular prototype was tooled if there weren't enough schemes to decorate it in.

The RMJ table says all the cars had Dreadnaught ends, but that's not accurate.  Most of the cars had 5-5-5 USRA ends.  So there's no way of knowing which cars in the table are correct.  However, the only two roads to have cars with Hutchins roofs were IC and MILW.

[JMaurer1]

Kenneth Anthony put together this information on another board back when I was trying to put together a list of the prototypes for the different rolling stock that was available. Problem with the idea is all too often, there either wasn't a prototype or nobody knew what it was. Still this may help some (it just took me awhile to go back and find it):

The real railroads also had 50 foot single-sheathed automobile boxcars with two Youngstown-style steel doors on each side. Walthers made a model of these cars. Spookshow says the cars came in two versions, with an end-loading door and with regular (non-opening) ends both ends. Here’s a link to Spookshow’s picture:

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/freight/50ribdd.html

Roadnames from the 1998 Walthers N/Z Scale Catalog
932-8351 Great Northern
932-8352 Union Pacific
932-8353 Northern Pacific
932-8354 Milwakee
932-8355 Southern Pacific
932-8356 Santa Fe
932-8350 undecorated

The catalog gives no indications which cars have the end doors. Spookshow’s photo shows an end door on a Northern Pacific car. (EDIT: apparently only the NP had the end doors)

Model spotting characteristics: 50 foot nominal length, single sheathed Howe truss, 4 panels to the left of the doors and 5 to the right. Youngstown-style corrugated steel doors. Steel Dreadnaught ends (I can’t tell the number or arrangement of ribs...) The roof looks like steel panels with standing ribs or seams.

Model Railroader ran an article on superdetailing these models with fishbelly USRA-style center-sill underframes and a reinforcement under the doors. One or the other or both of these applies to some of the prototypes, marked with an asterisk.* The article shows a Milwaukee Road car, but they did NOT have a prototype photo to verify the details. The superdetailing article is in Model Railroader July2000 p.86.

Prototypes WITHOUT doors:
Great Northern GN 41744 p.30 Freight Car Models Vol.II/Box Cars Book 1 (RailModel Journal) ends are 3/3/3 Dreadnaught. Walthers model could use modification for reinforcement under the doors, and fishbelly center sill, per Model Railroader article.*


Prototypes WITH END DOORS

Frisco SLSF #152805 photo Furniture and Automobile Box Cars Santa Fe Rwy Rolling Stock Reference p.14

NP #4803 w end doors p.31 Freight Car Models Vol.II/Box Cars Book 1 (RailModel Journal) Walthers model could use modification for fishbelly center sill, per Model Railroader article.*

Texas & Pacific T&P #70045; #70203. #70300. Cars with end doors. Freight Car Models Vol.II/Box Cars Book 1 (RailModel Journal) Walthers model could use modification for fishbelly center sill, per Model Railroader article.*

Western Pacific WP #40055. Car with end doors. P.26 Freight Car Models Vol.II/Box Cars Book 1 (RailModel Journal) Walthers model could use modification for reinforcement under the doors, and fishbelly center sill, per Model Railroader article.*

Other “NEAR PROTOTYPES” that would look somewhat similar to model. However, they have different numbers of panels from the 4-5 panel arrangement of the model.

Central Vermont 42015 3-4 panel (link to photo
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3-hpr5fsS0...New+London.jpg


Rock Island #264026 p.32 3-4 panels Freight Car Models Vol.II/Box Cars Book 1 (RailModel Journal)

[Chris333]

Found that mold I was talking about and what looks like the doner car:

[bbussey]

Found that mold I was talking about and what looks like the doner car:

I think this is the route I will take also.  I have two doors that are relative flat now (one left and one right), and I can laminate them to a brass plate so they can be cast flat.  I'll select another left-hand door from the group to cut down to half size (or thereabouts) and cast once I remove ten feet from one of the bodies.

[CVSNE]

Utilizing the Walthers model to kitbash the GTW 1½-door car is one of my goals.  What did you use to represent the doors, particularly the ½ door?

I have a pic of the GTW car, but the CV car would be a better fit for me.  What is the number series for the CV cars?

I cut down a Walthers door (requires two cuts, one right along the "flange" of the door, the other in the middle. Then spliced the flange edge back to the cut down half door. I ended up making one master and casting the other half doors.

The 1-1/2 door cars on the CV were in the 41000-series - (41000-41499) a number of CV cars ended up being transferred to the GTW (and vice versa).
 
Drawings and an article on the cars appeared in MR - back sometime in 2000 (March????)

Another option would be the CV's and GTW's double-door versions of the same car. Some of these were converted to single-door cars, (43000-series) and several ended up painted and equipped for passenger service - (44000 series). A single-sheated car in the black and green "Super Continental" scheme was definitely an odd sight! I did an extensive blog post on the 42000, 43000, and 44000 series cars.

http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.com/2011/08/central-vermonts-42000-43000-and-44000.html

Hope this helps,
Marty

[bbussey]

It helps a lot, thanks.  Whether I do the 1½ or double-door version depends on where the outside bracing sits once the three ribs are removed from the roof.  I was debating whether to narrow the end panels on the sides to closer match the CV/GTW prototype, but I think I'm going to leave them as is.

Looks like the CV cars had no end doors.  I see that CV did have an end-doors version.

[Frisco Larry]

I was always amazed about this car.  I bought a couple, UP and Milw, fairly decent.  Then I bought an undecorated one and discovered that the A end was a separate piece from the rest of the body and the undec. came with two A ends, one with end doors.  Walther's actually kind of goes the extra mile, and never even bothered to publicize it.  Then they claim N scale doesn't sell.

[CBQ Fan]

Some how I ended up with 2 of the NP units and they both have warped doors.  I know I bought the two cars spread out over a couple of years so it is not like they are from the same sequence in the overall run.  Mine are boxed up and will some day go to my boys as surplus.